Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Aussie » 26 Jun 2018, 15:29

Is that "No, I dunno how," or "No, get fucked?"
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 26 Jun 2018, 15:30

Aussie wrote:Is that "No, I dunno how," or "No, get fucked?"

Whatever way you want, ...longtime! :hush
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Aussie » 26 Jun 2018, 15:36

Bongalong wrote:
Aussie wrote:Is that "No, I dunno how," or "No, get fucked?"

Whatever way you want, ...longtime! :hush


If it is the former, then Monk will re-size it. If it is the latter, Monk will re-size it. It is preferable you do it yourself.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 26 Jun 2018, 15:39

Aussie wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
Aussie wrote:Is that "No, I dunno how," or "No, get fucked?"

Whatever way you want, ...longtime! :hush


If it is the former, then Monk will re-size it. If it is the latter, Monk will re-size it. It is preferable you do it yourself.

Why is it preferable I do it myself if the admin is going to do it anyway?

:bike :bike
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Aussie » 26 Jun 2018, 15:41

I have waved my magic wand and.....whoooosh!

:bgrin
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 26 Jun 2018, 16:29

Aussie wrote:I have waved my magic wand and.....whoooosh!

:bgrin

You've waved your freaky dikk at yourself and that's about it brutha :bike :bike
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby pinkeye » 21 Sep 2018, 03:46

WELL

I saw Q & A the other night. Germaine Greer was on the panel, and I MUST SAY THIS... hearing her response to questions about her essay was enlightening...

And I agree with her whole-heartedly.

So obvious when you get the true story.

Whoever started this topic started off from a basis of misinterpretation... so easy when this is so complex.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby mothra » 21 Sep 2018, 10:21

pinkeye wrote:WELL

I saw Q & A the other night. Germaine Greer was on the panel, and I MUST SAY THIS... hearing her response to questions about her essay was enlightening...

And I agree with her whole-heartedly.

So obvious when you get the true story.

Whoever started this topic started off from a basis of misinterpretation... so easy when this is so complex.


I watched it too. I'm inclined to watch Germaine ... she impresses me, although i find her arrogant and often conditionally empathic.

I disagree with your assessment.

For a start, i found her conclusion that by by virtue of the raper knowing their victim that implies they were in a long term relationship flawed. I think you will find most of those instances (while no doubt existing) are never spoken of. It is more likely to be the case of dates, friends and acquaintances taking advantage of what they see as opportunities. Germaine has built her premise on shifting sand. Again, she leaves many, many people unrepresented in her quest to represent the demographic she is referring to.

And in the case of violent assault and all that brings to the table, the least that can be said of that is that it is highly insensitive.

Secondly, i was quite shocked at her explanation of trauma ... as thought he experience of it it is somehow a choice. This is symbolic of Germaine's great weakness. I've said before, she is a brilliant woman who has not only thought very deeply, she has reconciled a great many things with her intellect. She, in what i consider to be quite patriarchal tones, tends to expect that she is right and that her conclusions are naturally the pinnacle of realisation for other people. This is not a poor tactic in itself but when it comes to such altitudes as these, fraught with danger.

She is very candid about sexual violence in her own past. She is self deprecating about the conclusions she drew from it and has, through introspection and analysis, reconciled the assault within herself. She, on this issue no less than others, applies that reasoning to the experience of other people. To illustrate my point with a simple over-arch, not everyone feels the same way about sex as Germaine, who is indeed incredibly progressive. Rape is about sex as much as it is about power. It simply has to be. I reject the notion that rape isn't about sex.

We see this evidenced in Germaine through many of her comments; not least the ridiculous and offensive suggestion that the experience of trauma is dependant on the perceptions and choices of the person experiencing it. Huntsmen? Really? She abjectly dismisses that for many women, the very thought that someone enters their body against their will is utterly intolerable and involuntarily life-changing. Germaine, again, able to reconcile her own experiences places that expectation on others. To her mind it is empowerment. I'm not saying she is all the way wrong ... just incredibly dismissive and insensitive.

All of that said, the world needs Germaine. She's on the money more than she's not. About this and MeToo though, we part company.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 21 Sep 2018, 12:53

If rape is about sex then shouldn't we just call it sex?

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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby johnsmith » 21 Sep 2018, 13:47

Bongalong wrote:If rape is about sex then shouldn't we just call it sex?


rape is rarely about sex. It has more to do with power and dominance over someone else
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby mothra » 21 Sep 2018, 14:23

johnsmith wrote:
Bongalong wrote:If rape is about sex then shouldn't we just call it sex?


rape is rarely about sex. It has more to do with power and dominance over someone else


I get the psychology of that reasoning and understand fully the prevailing variables that speak to it's genesis and proliferation ... but ... i think, having thought about it deeply, that we must not minimise the fact that sex plays a starring role.

It is, at it's root, sexual intercourse. People are fucked agaisnt their will. There are unquestionably wider and deeper and perhaps even more sociologically significant causal factors all of which are valid and worthy of dissection yet still, sex happens.

It does not help a survivor or a victim to tell them that he was really just exerting power over you. It doesn't change the fact that they have been fucked against their will.

What's more, and more-so especially in light of Germaine's overriding point, it quite often is just about sexual desire. A disregard for the victim more than exhibition of power. This is certainly true in many instances of date-rape or rape within relationships ... and other times when the fact of consent is cloudy.

Now i understand the feminist philosophy that disrespect of consent is very much about power. Power and sovereignty and how the patriarchy and rape culture feed into that and how that overarches sexual desire and shifts the impetus onto power .. and i reiterate, i get the reasoning. I just think it's ultimately dismissive of the impressions felt by many.

And even if you reject my hypothesis that saying it isn't about sex, or rarely about sex because it about power is dismissive, you must concede that by it's very nature, it must be very much about sex, for no greater reason than sex occurred. And fears of pregnancy and infection, and all of the associated feelings to do with having been fucked are still there. There's just a whole bunch more along for the ride.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby johnsmith » 21 Sep 2018, 15:56

mothra wrote:I get the psychology of that reasoning and understand fully the prevailing variables that speak to it's genesis and proliferation ... but ... i think, having thought about it deeply, that we must not minimise the fact that sex plays a starring role.


of course it does and my intention is certainly not to try and minimise the role of sex. Sex is the trigger. Without it rape wouldn't occur.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby mothra » 21 Sep 2018, 17:21

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:I get the psychology of that reasoning and understand fully the prevailing variables that speak to it's genesis and proliferation ... but ... i think, having thought about it deeply, that we must not minimise the fact that sex plays a starring role.


of course it does and my intention is certainly not to try and minimise the role of sex. Sex is the trigger. Without it rape wouldn't occur.


Apolgies if it came across as though i was directing my comments specifically to you ... they are more directed at the statement itself.

It's one i've long struggled with.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby johnsmith » 21 Sep 2018, 18:16

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:I get the psychology of that reasoning and understand fully the prevailing variables that speak to it's genesis and proliferation ... but ... i think, having thought about it deeply, that we must not minimise the fact that sex plays a starring role.


of course it does and my intention is certainly not to try and minimise the role of sex. Sex is the trigger. Without it rape wouldn't occur.


Apolgies if it came across as though i was directing my comments specifically to you ... they are more directed at the statement itself.

It's one i've long struggled with.


No need to apologise, i was just clarifying my position.

I wonder if you took out the sex, what percentage of cases would turn to other forms of physical assault?

or do you think that without the sex these perpetrators would behave?
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby mothra » 21 Sep 2018, 18:25

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:I get the psychology of that reasoning and understand fully the prevailing variables that speak to it's genesis and proliferation ... but ... i think, having thought about it deeply, that we must not minimise the fact that sex plays a starring role.


of course it does and my intention is certainly not to try and minimise the role of sex. Sex is the trigger. Without it rape wouldn't occur.


Apolgies if it came across as though i was directing my comments specifically to you ... they are more directed at the statement itself.

It's one i've long struggled with.


No need to apologise, i was just clarifying my position.

I wonder if you took out the sex, what percentage of cases would turn to other forms of physical assault?

or do you think that without the sex these perpetrators would behave?


I think it's a spectrum. And i think that is the dialogue Germaine has opened, and i thank her for that. I would curse her insensitivity but some rudeness is often needed to crack something wide enough for the light to get in.

I suppose what you're really asking is the kind of person who would rape express such violence in other ways if sex were not an option. I would say that those capable of rape on the whole will tend towards anti-social behaviours ... yet we need to accept i think occuring upon that spectrum are rapes committed out of nothing more than thoughtless lust and those that occur through misunderstood consent.

I think open discussion of this will benefit us all ... if we don't completely cock it up.

..which we probably will.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 21 Sep 2018, 18:32

johnsmith wrote:
Bongalong wrote:If rape is about sex then shouldn't we just call it sex?


rape is rarely about sex. It has more to do with power and dominance over someone else

Not according to mothra!
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby johnsmith » 21 Sep 2018, 19:11

I'm speaking only based on my opinion, which comes from things I've read on the subject and my own experiences which admittedly are not extensive , although I do know people who were accused of rape (and I believe they were guilty) and so a lot of my opinions are formed based on what I know of them, as skewed as they may be.

Whilst I agree that sex is the trigger, and without it you would not have rape, I still think that in most cases rape isn't about the sex. All guys get urges (apart from Jasin :bgrin ), however most guys don't rape women. They find other ways to relieve their urges or they simply take a cold shower.

I think the main difference between your typical guy and one who would rape is their need to dominate, their inability to handle rejection or their need to get their way no matter what. I suspect that if you took out the sex, the vast majority of these guys would find other ways to force themselves onto other people. I think that the number of rapes that result only as a result of sexual urges is in fact quite low.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby johnsmith » 21 Sep 2018, 19:12

Bongalong wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Bongalong wrote:If rape is about sex then shouldn't we just call it sex?


rape is rarely about sex. It has more to do with power and dominance over someone else

Not according to mothra!


she seems to know more on the subject then I.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby mothra » 21 Sep 2018, 21:37

johnsmith wrote:I'm speaking only based on my opinion, which comes from things I've read on the subject and my own experiences which admittedly are not extensive , although I do know people who were accused of rape (and I believe they were guilty) and so a lot of my opinions are formed based on what I know of them, as skewed as they may be.

Whilst I agree that sex is the trigger, and without it you would not have rape, I still think that in most cases rape isn't about the sex. All guys get urges (apart from Jasin :bgrin ), however most guys don't rape women. They find other ways to relieve their urges or they simply take a cold shower.


I don't know i'd go so far as to say sex is always the trigger. Sometimes it is purely about dominion ... but i stand by my statement that rape, as pretty much everything else, exists upon a spectrum.

I think that when you boil it all away, that is the point Gernmaine is making. Ham-fisting it as she does yet perhaps the door required some solid kicks to it.

The distinction i am trying to make is that the typically feminist platitude that rape is not about sex, it is about power is mypoic and unintentionally dismissive of individual experience and residual feeling.

As i said, i understand what is truly meant by it ... and it speaks strongly to the place of women in society for thousands of years ... yet i believe that to truly let the light in, we need to pull apart all examples on the spectrum. On both sides.

johnsmith wrote:I think the main difference between your typical guy and one who would rape is their need to dominate, their inability to handle rejection or their need to get their way no matter what. I suspect that if you took out the sex, the vast majority of these guys would find other ways to force themselves onto other people. I think that the number of rapes that result only as a result of sexual urges is in fact quite low.


I agree. As a general rule, those inclined to rape would be inclined to other anti-social behaviours.

I hasten to add that no rape occurs purely because of sexual urges. It is simply to complex to be ascribed a single motivation.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby pinkeye » 21 Sep 2018, 23:44

I'll try and consider your responses (all) more thoroughly.. umm...but I think we are still missing her message.

You have to turn it around and consider her comments on long-term marriages and relationships.

She is saying, in essence, that women are raped all the time, by their partners. NOT ALL WOMEN, by any sense, BUT... MANY women live with MEN who use them as they please, and that is the expectation.. the woman puts up, no argument ( or else) .

She is saying that this type of rape is sanctioned and ignored by society.

I do not think she has been clear enough in expressing this , because feminists everywhere are up in arms. I just think a disinterested reviewing of this work, may make people realise her message.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 22 Sep 2018, 12:03

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I'm speaking only based on my opinion, which comes from things I've read on the subject and my own experiences which admittedly are not extensive , although I do know people who were accused of rape (and I believe they were guilty) and so a lot of my opinions are formed based on what I know of them, as skewed as they may be.

Whilst I agree that sex is the trigger, and without it you would not have rape, I still think that in most cases rape isn't about the sex. All guys get urges (apart from Jasin :bgrin ), however most guys don't rape women. They find other ways to relieve their urges or they simply take a cold shower.


I don't know i'd go so far as to say sex is always the trigger. Sometimes it is purely about dominion ... but i stand by my statement that rape, as pretty much everything else, exists upon a spectrum.

I think that when you boil it all away, that is the point Gernmaine is making. Ham-fisting it as she does yet perhaps the door required some solid kicks to it.

The distinction i am trying to make is that the typically feminist platitude that rape is not about sex, it is about power is mypoic and unintentionally dismissive of individual experience and residual feeling.

As i said, i understand what is truly meant by it ... and it speaks strongly to the place of women in society for thousands of years ... yet i believe that to truly let the light in, we need to pull apart all examples on the spectrum. On both sides.

johnsmith wrote:I think the main difference between your typical guy and one who would rape is their need to dominate, their inability to handle rejection or their need to get their way no matter what. I suspect that if you took out the sex, the vast majority of these guys would find other ways to force themselves onto other people. I think that the number of rapes that result only as a result of sexual urges is in fact quite low.


I agree. As a general rule, those inclined to rape would be inclined to other anti-social behaviours.

I hasten to add that no rape occurs purely because of sexual urges. It is simply to complex to be ascribed a single motivation.

Well, perhaps 'power' is the undefined word?

Nietzsche was talking about 'will to "power"': whereby the organism simply wishes to expend its energy. This must include the sexual element as we are sexual beings. So I suppose by that reasoning it must be there.... I think it is a definitional thing and when people talk in such a clinical fashion- science being largely about definitions and nomenclature- it can be very annoying to the average person because they don't play by those definitions.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby pinkeye » 23 Sep 2018, 02:11

IF you want to listen to Germaine Go to ABC NEWS24 NOW.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 23 Sep 2018, 17:37

pinkeye wrote:IF you want to listen to Germaine Go to ABC NEWS24 NOW.

What did she say? Is there a link to the transcript??
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby pinkeye » 23 Sep 2018, 23:36

I imagine you could find it on the associated web page... whatever that is ABCNews and the date might be a good start, but hey.. not my bag, man.
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Re: Germaine Greer: 'Most rape is just bad sex'

Postby Bongalong » 25 Sep 2018, 12:23

pinkeye wrote:I imagine you could find it on the associated web page... whatever that is ABCNews and the date might be a good start, but hey.. not my bag, man.

Lol, but all men are pigs yeh got ya!
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