courts occasionally get it right

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courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 05 Apr 2018, 19:00

A violent career criminal who used bedding to murder a Brisbane mother then raped her daughter has been jailed for at least 25 years.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/05/12/00/qld-murderer-child-rapist-jailed-for-life?ocid=Social-9NewsGC



I'm glad to see the courts occasionally get something right. This arsehole should never have been out on bail. Even 25 yrs isn't enough.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Dax » 05 Apr 2018, 19:31

Even the death penalty wouldn't deter scum like this. But maybe a sentence of like kind, may make even the worst moron think twice. Or they would face the same death as their victims and as the majority are cowards, it may have and effect.

Won't happen, life should mean natural life, not an economic or ideological one. To many of these creeps get out and do the same or worse.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 05 Apr 2018, 19:42

Dax wrote:Even the death penalty wouldn't deter scum like this. But maybe a sentence of like kind, may make even the worst moron think twice. Or they would face the same death as their victims and as the majority are cowards, it may have and effect.

Won't happen, life should mean natural life, not an economic or ideological one. To many of these creeps get out and do the same or worse.



I actually know the family of the victims in this case.
He was a long time 'friend' of the victim and her daughters. The 12yr old girl he raped used to call him Uncle Jake. The guy deserves to rot in hell. I hope he gets bashed and raped every single day he is in jail.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby mothra » 05 Apr 2018, 21:35

Oh. My heart. That child!
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby pinkeye » 07 Apr 2018, 02:24

Dax wrote:Even the death penalty wouldn't deter scum like this. But maybe a sentence of like kind, may make even the worst moron think twice. Or they would face the same death as their victims and as the majority are cowards, it may have and effect.

Won't happen, life should mean natural life, not an economic or ideological one. To many of these creeps get out and do the same or worse.


And WAY TOO MANY never get caught at all. :sad
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 15 Dec 2018, 16:20

johnsmith wrote:
A violent career criminal who used bedding to murder a Brisbane mother then raped her daughter has been jailed for at least 25 years.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/05/12/00/qld-murderer-child-rapist-jailed-for-life?ocid=Social-9NewsGC



I'm glad to see the courts occasionally get something right. This arsehole should never have been out on bail. Even 25 yrs isn't enough.


No, 25 years is not enough. Does Australia have "true life" sentences? Prison until they die - no possibility of parole, no early release.

To my mind, this case deserves the death penalty. It's not a question of deterrence. It's not to seek vengeance.

It's society's way of saying "No, absolutely not. If you commit heinous crimes like these, we will not be merciful. We will not house you, feed you, give you medical care, give you friends, TV, a prison job, and recreation for the rest of your life at our expense." It is also society's way of drawing a final line in the sand where we say that if you cross over this line, then justice to your victims will outweigh mercy for you. It is a line that separates being human from being inhuman, even though that inhumanity may occupy a physical human body. We would not hesitate to destroy a rabid dog that was attacking people, and there is a point - a line if you will - that the worst criminals may step over where they should become no more inviolate than a rabid dog.

This man had been convicted of murder once before. He served 10 years. And then he was released. And now this.

And so who bears responsibility for this woman's death and rape of a 12 year old girl? The criminal? Sure.

But who else? Is it not all of us? For our laws and our governments are a reflection of all of us, are they not? What is our responsibility? Did we enable this killer to murder this woman and rape her daughter?

Yes. Yes, we did. We did that.

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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 15 Dec 2018, 16:31

SethBullock wrote:Does Australia have "true life" sentences? Prison until they die - no possibility of parole, no early release.


no


they should!
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Dec 2018, 16:40

Martin Bryant.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 15 Dec 2018, 18:04

johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:Does Australia have "true life" sentences? Prison until they die - no possibility of parole, no early release.


no


they should!


HBS Guy wrote:Martin Bryant


Well, do you or don't you?
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 15 Dec 2018, 18:04

SethBullock wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:Does Australia have "true life" sentences? Prison until they die - no possibility of parole, no early release.


no


they should!


HBS Guy wrote:Martin Bryant


Well, do you or don't you?



no
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 15 Dec 2018, 18:07

HBS Guy wrote:Martin Bryant.


Martin Bryant received 35 life sentences. I think a life sentence is equal to 25 years. He's in for life because of the number of people he killed.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Aussie » 15 Dec 2018, 18:10

johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Martin Bryant.


Martin Bryant received 35 life sentences. I think a life sentence is equal to 25 years. He's in for life because of the number of people he killed.


Unless it was ordered that he serve them all concurrently.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 15 Dec 2018, 18:11

Aussie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Martin Bryant.


Martin Bryant received 35 life sentences. I think a life sentence is equal to 25 years. He's in for life because of the number of people he killed.


Unless it was ordered that he serve them all concurrently.



yes councillor :PC
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Aussie » 15 Dec 2018, 18:12

Counsellor!

:bgrin
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby johnsmith » 15 Dec 2018, 18:13

Aussie wrote:Counsellor!

:bgrin


:up
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 15 Dec 2018, 18:14

SethBullock wrote:And so who bears responsibility for this woman's death and rape of a 12 year old girl? The criminal? Sure.

But who else? Is it not all of us? For our laws and our governments are a reflection of all of us, are they not? What is our responsibility? Did we enable this killer to murder this woman and rape her daughter?

Yes. Yes, we did. We did that.


This is what bothers me most.

I say "we" because we make the same mistakes in the U.S. Not everywhere. Some states are pretty tough, and a lot of them - most of them - have the option to sentence people to "true" life sentences. But when we go easy on violent criminals, we fail our people, and yes, we did that.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Aussie » 15 Dec 2018, 18:20

SethBullock wrote:
SethBullock wrote:And so who bears responsibility for this woman's death and rape of a 12 year old girl? The criminal? Sure.

But who else? Is it not all of us? For our laws and our governments are a reflection of all of us, are they not? What is our responsibility? Did we enable this killer to murder this woman and rape her daughter?

Yes. Yes, we did. We did that.


This is what bothers me most.

I say "we" because we make the same mistakes in the U.S. Not everywhere. Some states are pretty tough, and a lot of them - most of them - have the option to sentence people to "true" life sentences. But when we go easy on violent criminals, we fail our people, and yes, we did that.


Ya see......there is this thing called rehabilitation, which is given lip service to as part of the correctional service protocols and elements. If a bloke has a door shut on him....like 'you are here for 25 years no matter what...' he might as well become the worst prisoner ever. Nothing to lose. But.....if there is a carrot (so the theory goes) he will go for the light, and not the dark.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Bongalong » 15 Dec 2018, 23:03

Dax wrote:Even the death penalty wouldn't deter scum like this. But maybe a sentence of like kind, may make even the worst moron think twice. Or they would face the same death as their victims and as the majority are cowards, it may have and effect.

Won't happen, life should mean natural life, not an economic or ideological one. To many of these creeps get out and do the same or worse.

I agree with the second paragraph!
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Bongalong » 15 Dec 2018, 23:04

Aussie wrote:Counsellor!

:bgrin

Just tell him to get fucked :c
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Bongalong » 15 Dec 2018, 23:06

SethBullock wrote:
SethBullock wrote:And so who bears responsibility for this woman's death and rape of a 12 year old girl? The criminal? Sure.

But who else? Is it not all of us? For our laws and our governments are a reflection of all of us, are they not? What is our responsibility? Did we enable this killer to murder this woman and rape her daughter?

Yes. Yes, we did. We did that.


This is what bothers me most.

I say "we" because we make the same mistakes in the U.S. Not everywhere. Some states are pretty tough, and a lot of them - most of them - have the option to sentence people to "true" life sentences. But when we go easy on violent criminals, we fail our people, and yes, we did that.

Look at Indonesia: if Australians get caught with Heroin there they get shot!

Is that good or bad??????????
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby Texan » 16 Dec 2018, 00:07

I’m a big fan of the death penalty, but I would reserve the sentence for those convicted with irrefutable evidence like DNA, video footage or being caught in the act by police. We can’t afford to kill innocent people.

I don’t believe in rehabilitation as a goal. I think punishment will provide rehabilitation. Prison should be hard labor and only days worked are counted towards their sentence. Prisons should grow their own crops, raise their own livestock, and provide labor for government contracts. (Building furniture for government offices, orphanages, etc....)
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 16 Dec 2018, 00:10

Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
SethBullock wrote:And so who bears responsibility for this woman's death and rape of a 12 year old girl? The criminal? Sure.

But who else? Is it not all of us? For our laws and our governments are a reflection of all of us, are they not? What is our responsibility? Did we enable this killer to murder this woman and rape her daughter?

Yes. Yes, we did. We did that.


This is what bothers me most.

I say "we" because we make the same mistakes in the U.S. Not everywhere. Some states are pretty tough, and a lot of them - most of them - have the option to sentence people to "true" life sentences. But when we go easy on violent criminals, we fail our people, and yes, we did that.

Look at Indonesia: if Australians get caught with Heroin there they get shot!

Is that good or bad??????????


And a woman can be stoned to death in some countries for adultery. But I'm talking about murder in modern, western culture, first world countries.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby mothra » 16 Dec 2018, 00:22

Texan wrote:I

I don’t believe in rehabilitation as a goal. )


Why on earth not? Do you believe that everybody starts out life with the same opportunities and social awareness?
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 16 Dec 2018, 00:42

Aussie wrote:Ya see......there is this thing called rehabilitation, which is given lip service to as part of the correctional service protocols and elements. If a bloke has a door shut on him....like 'you are here for 25 years no matter what...' he might as well become the worst prisoner ever. Nothing to lose. But.....if there is a carrot (so the theory goes) he will go for the light, and not the dark.


There is some truth to that. A prisoner doing "true life" in a state that has no death penalty has got a free pass to do anything in prison, including murder. About the only thing you can do with prisoners like that is to put them in special housing units where they are closely controlled and where no casual interaction with other prisoners is possible. However, if a prisoner is doing a determinate sentence like 10 years, the "carrot" should be that no time is added on for new crimes committed in prison. So if the prisoner commits crimes while in prison, charge him, try him, and add the sentence on to the one he already has. That should serve as incentive to behave oneself in prison.

Texan wrote:I’m a big fan of the death penalty, but I would reserve the sentence for those convicted with irrefutable evidence like DNA, video footage or being caught in the act by police. We can’t afford to kill innocent people.

I don’t believe in rehabilitation as a goal. I think punishment will provide rehabilitation. Prison should be hard labor and only days worked are counted towards their sentence. Prisons should grow their own crops, raise their own livestock, and provide labor for government contracts. (Building furniture for government offices, orphanages, etc....)


I agree that punishment does provide rehabilitation. Age statistics of prisoners prove it. Our prisons are full of younger men. What this tells us is that older men who are released from prison have had enough of that life, and they are far less likely to re-offend and go back.
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Re: courts occasionally get it right

Postby SethBullock » 16 Dec 2018, 01:34

mothra wrote:
Texan wrote:I

I don’t believe in rehabilitation as a goal. )


Why on earth not? Do you believe that everybody starts out life with the same opportunities and social awareness?


If a criminal is going to do 5 or 10 years and then get released, then it makes sense to offer some things while in prison that will help them get along in society.

But there are cases, such as this one, where this sort of rehabilitation should not be a goal. The goals should be to punish and to protect society.

I think about that 12 year old girl, and I wonder what her life will be like in the future. And 25 years from now she will be 37, and her mother's killer and her rapist could be set free. So this is the price of her mother's murder and her rape when she was 12 and for her ongoing suffering. 25 years. But 25 years from now, will she somehow "be over it"? Or will the scars be permanent? Will this be a nightmare she will relive for the rest of her life?

And again, it is not some nebulous justice system that will release him, for we live in a democratic society where we make the laws through our representatives. So "who" is releasing him has a face. And that face is "us". We are doing that.

To my mind, this man deserves to be put to death. But since that is not possible in Australia, he should never be released. It should be a matter of law, not left to the discretion of some future parole board. Rehabilitation is not the goal here. He should stay in prison until he dies. Anything short of that would be a gross miscarriage of justice.

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