Circumcision

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Re: Circumcision

Postby Vulcan » 25 Feb 2018, 20:07

Hi Miranda.
Ahh - I see your point. At first I thought you were saying I said "performed on kids."
The 'link' is associated to the 'fetish' sex addiction manifestations around the world.

I do add things 'outside the box' in my comments often. Always gotta look at it from all angles and influences when discussing. You never know what comes up.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby pinkeye » 26 Feb 2018, 00:39

Miranda wrote:inkeye, if you didn't want a subjective response to this issue, then you shouldn't have expressed your sexist preference. And I see that you are still justifying male circumcision for cultural reasons, which is exactly how female circumcision is justified. Do you understand that circumcision is genital mutilation?You and Vulcan have suggested extreme consequences for citizens of affluent societies who fail to have their menfolk circumcised. That claim lacks evidence. No child or infant should have suffer the sexual abuse that is genital mutilation. Only informed adults, with the capacity to consent to genital mutilation, have that right.


I thought I made it clear that there is NO COMPARISON . Circumcision performed on an infant, can not be considered in the same GROSS league as female genital mutilation.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.??
Male circumcision is a minor procedure, compared to most other surgical procedures.
Clitorectomies and labial excisions are of a whole other level, and are an abomination.




johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote: The removal of a piece of superfluous and sometimes harmful piece of skin.. (in the modern world men wear pants. often tight. The humidity levels and potential for fungal infection is much greater now, than when men wore sarongs and loose trousers. Stands to reason.)...... cannot be considered an equal issue to female genital mutilation.


geez you come up with some claptrap sometimes

I don't know of any male that has ever had any fungal infection in that region, although I have heard of males to old to wash themselves properly having an issue with it. I would hazard a guess that men and women who are unable to wash properly have all sorts of problems anyway, not just with their dicks.

However, I have known several women for whom it is an issue, and they weren't old or incapacitated in any way .
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Re: Circumcision

Postby pinkeye » 26 Feb 2018, 00:46

pinkeye wrote:
Miranda wrote:inkeye, if you didn't want a subjective response to this issue, then you shouldn't have expressed your sexist preference. And I see that you are still justifying male circumcision for cultural reasons, which is exactly how female circumcision is justified. Do you understand that circumcision is genital mutilation?You and Vulcan have suggested extreme consequences for citizens of affluent societies who fail to have their menfolk circumcised. That claim lacks evidence. No child or infant should have suffer the sexual abuse that is genital mutilation. Only informed adults, with the capacity to consent to genital mutilation, have that right.


I thought I made it clear that there is NO COMPARISON . Circumcision performed on an infant, can not be considered in the same GROSS league as female genital mutilation.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.??
Male circumcision is a minor procedure, compared to most other surgical procedures.
Clitorectomies and labial excisions are of a whole other level, and are an abomination.




johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote: The removal of a piece of superfluous and sometimes harmful piece of skin.. (in the modern world men wear pants. often tight. The humidity levels and potential for fungal infection is much greater now, than when men wore sarongs and loose trousers. Stands to reason.)...... cannot be considered an equal issue to female genital mutilation.


geez you come up with some claptrap sometimes

I don't know of any male that has ever had any fungal infection in that region, although I have heard of males to old to wash themselves properly having an issue with it. I would hazard a guess that men and women who are unable to wash properly have all sorts of problems anyway, not just with their dicks.

However, I have known several women for whom it is an issue, and they weren't old or incapacitated in any way .



What ? cheesy old men.? They didn't like it?

OHH it's OK I understand what you are saying. All sexes can have sick genitalia. :tweed :tweed :clap :giggle :clap :clap

Other than Miranda's view that circumcision is child abuse, does anyone else have anything relevant to say.?
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Re: Circumcision

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Feb 2018, 00:54

Circumcision of male babies or young boys is sex abuse—they cannot give informed consent. With female babies it is assault and sexual abuse!

How hard is it for anyone not actually incapacitated to skin back the foreskin when having a shower?
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Re: Circumcision

Postby pinkeye » 26 Feb 2018, 01:19

HBS Guy wrote:Circumcision of male babies or young boys is sex abuse—they cannot give informed consent. With female babies it is assault and sexual abuse!

How hard is it for anyone not actually incapacitated to skin back the foreskin when having a shower?



UMM Monk.. I find your reasoning hard to follow.
Sexual abuse to boys, by circumcision. Is that what you meant.? Umm are you saying circumcision is sexually motivated.? perhaps you used the wrong word.?

UMM circumcision on female babies is rare, in comparison to male circumcision. AND IS ILLEGAL HERE, and IN MOST OTHER COUNTRIES
. (sadly it happens anyway IN BACKWARD TRIBAL CULTURES. BUT not restricted there, because horrendous information says IT HAPPENS HERE Too. ..)

UNLIKE circumcision.

Please guys you have to get it in context.
However hard it might be, you are thinking only from your own experience. YOU don't know of that to which you refer... sounds good tho eh.?
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Re: Circumcision

Postby pinkeye » 26 Feb 2018, 01:20

HBS Guy wrote:How hard is it for anyone not actually incapacitated to skin back the foreskin when having a shower?


Well you might ask.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 26 Feb 2018, 14:03

There is no comparison to female and male circumcision. Let me just say that off the bat. Although i consider it to be, i no longer refer to female genital cutting as mutilation, owing to listening to women who have had the procedure performed on them expressing dismay at being identified as mutilated.

However, male circumcision is unnecessary and painful. I see no reason for it.

We have, as a species evolved to have that sheath of skin on the penises of our male bodies. I heard it said once in a seminar that there are secretions containing neurohormones such as pitocin and vasopressin that are absorbed through the foreskin during sex when a woman is ovulating that trigger protective and bonding responses in the male. Interesting, no?

There is nothing on or in the human body that is superfluous. Even the vestigial appendix is covered in immune cells.

I asked my doctor about my son's foreskin, as at a few years of age, it still hadn't rolled back, so we couldn't clean underneath it. He just smiled at me wisely and said we've been, as a species, doing this foreskin thing for some time now and all would be well.

It was.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby johnsmith » 26 Feb 2018, 16:56

mothra wrote:vasopressin that are absorbed through the foreskin


what if you don't use vaseline? :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo




sorry, couldn't help myself :clap
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 26 Feb 2018, 17:31

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:vasopressin that are absorbed through the foreskin


what if you don't use vaseline? :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo




sorry, couldn't help myself :clap


Can't bloody well behave yourself, can you.

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Re: Circumcision

Postby johnsmith » 26 Feb 2018, 20:08

it's a gift :rose
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 26 Feb 2018, 20:25

johnsmith wrote:it's a gift :rose


You're very talented ... :giggle
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Re: Circumcision

Postby johnsmith » 26 Feb 2018, 21:55

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:it's a gift :rose


You're very talented ... :giggle



now you sound like my wife :bgrin :bgrin
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Vulcan » 27 Feb 2018, 19:25

HBS Guy wrote:Circumcision of male babies or young boys is sex abuse—they cannot give informed consent. With female babies it is assault and sexual abuse!

How hard is it for anyone not actually incapacitated to skin back the foreskin when having a shower?


Interesting point regarding 'babies not being able to give consent' - I know I never did!
It's also like being given a Religion, without consent. Though - people can change religion when they are older. They can't get their foreskin back, even if they ask Bill Shorten.

You will be surprised at how many males out there can't look after themselves. Dirty doodles happen all the time in many ways. I saw at least 12 males from the age of 14 to 30 come into the Private Hospital I once worked at to be circumcised for 'some' reason (?). I didn't pry. Often the case is that 'old fellas' can't keep themselves clean and get their 'old fellas' circumcised. If they don't keep their penis clean - they get 'burny dick' without the clap thrown in.

I wonder if there is any recorded historical evidence to show males being circumcised before the Jews made it official (and in writing) via Religion?
That would negate 'religion' being the original reason?
Come to think of it - Aboriginals have been doing it (at the age of 12) for tens of thousands of years before the Jews were born from Adam & Eve.

Anyway, both 'knobs' have their advantages and disadvantages.
It's like someone who is 'trained' and someone who is a 'natural' - both are good.
If you haven't tried both types of 'knobs' ladies, be it the 'doorknob' or the 'tortoise in a sweater', then I recommend you do so. Always good to have a balanced opinion.

I must say. I find it hard to accept any 'sexual advice' from Western Medicine - I don't particularly see the 'white race' doing particularly well in the 'sex/breeding' category. Western Medicine is so messed up - even white males fall pregnant and grow vaginas. Weird ...really weird.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Miranda » 01 Mar 2018, 13:49

mothra wrote:There is no comparison to female and male circumcision. Let me just say that off the bat. Although i consider it to be, i no longer refer to female genital cutting as mutilation, owing to listening to women who have had the procedure performed on them expressing dismay at being identified as mutilated.



So, due to hypersensitivity of the survivor, we should no longer use the term FMG, but 'cutting' is an acceptable term ATM, yes?

https://psychcentral.com/blog/cutting-and-self-injury/

It can get quite confusing to others, when we don't own what we have survived.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 01 Mar 2018, 13:58

Miranda wrote:
mothra wrote:There is no comparison to female and male circumcision. Let me just say that off the bat. Although i consider it to be, i no longer refer to female genital cutting as mutilation, owing to listening to women who have had the procedure performed on them expressing dismay at being identified as mutilated.



So, due to hypersensitivity of the survivor, we should no longer use the term FMG, but 'cutting' is an acceptable term ATM, yes?

https://psychcentral.com/blog/cutting-and-self-injury/

It can get quite confusing to others, when we don't own what we have survived.


Hypersensitivity?

Serious question; are you a sociopath?
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Miranda » 01 Mar 2018, 19:14

mothra wrote:
Miranda wrote:
mothra wrote:There is no comparison to female and male circumcision. Let me just say that off the bat. Although i consider it to be, i no longer refer to female genital cutting as mutilation, owing to listening to women who have had the procedure performed on them expressing dismay at being identified as mutilated.



So, due to hypersensitivity of the survivor, we should no longer use the term FMG, but 'cutting' is an acceptable term ATM, yes?

https://psychcentral.com/blog/cutting-and-self-injury/

It can get quite confusing to others, when we don't own what we have survived.


Hypersensitivity?

Serious question; are you a sociopath?


That was not a serious question Mothra. That was an attempt to antagonize, and it didn't work. You do need more assistance joining the dots, however, so here goes...

A person who has survived FMG, has done just that... Survived. This makes them important, and valuable if we are ever going to make this barbaric practice history. The survivor has the ability to speak on behalf of the many thousands of faceless, nameless souls who are the victims of FMG. Changing the label from FMG to 'cutting' conflates two vastly different issues.

I'm not sure why you would question the hypersensitivity of the survivors of FMG.

It is a normal response to want to reduce the linguistic impact of traumatic events by changing the descriptors so as to lessen the drama and reduce possible issues with self image. It is more import though, to address the issue via specialized counselling for the survivor.

In Australia, individuals have a right report crime and claim compensation relating to that crime, as well as taking civil action via a lawsuit. FMG makes both aspects of law valid, should the survivor want to take action. To do so, however, the survivor must come to terms with the language of law.

https://www.ag.gov.au/publications/docu ... mework.pdf

And now a question for you Mothra: Did you really go to University? You don't think or write like a grad does. :S
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 01 Mar 2018, 20:10

Not an intention to antagonise in the slightest; a legitimate question. I see from your response that you merely both underappreciate and misunderstand the application of the word “hypersensitive”.

Were you not so wilfully abrasive, you would have noticed that I spoke only of my own terms of reference. The fact that you applied this to the collective “we” speaks tremendously to your general level of insecurity.

In any event, women who have undergone FGC are under absolutely no compulsion to do anything at all, let alone advocate for anyone else. Should they choose to, well then, that is fabulous. Nobody understands the holistic nature of that abuse more so than them … but we have absolutely no right to expect it of them.

There are other reasons why cutting is a preferable term yet I feel disinclined to discuss them with you, owing both to your demonstrable naivety and arrogance.

Perhaps you could do some research and catch up to me?

As for my university career … perhaps you'd like to post a link to where on this forum i've mentioned that I have had anything at all to do with university? Or now might be a good time to tell us all who you are on Ozpol?

And I do believe I will survive your critique of my analysis and writing style … seeing as how you refer to an uncircumcised penis as “in tacked”. Reckon I had that one figured out before my tertiary years. Jesus christ, you don't even have the wherewithal to intuit how offensive the label "hypersensitive" is.

Would you like the dictionary definitions to the above words?
Last edited by mothra on 01 Mar 2018, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Vulcan » 01 Mar 2018, 21:51

Well two very good points of view.

Please continue.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Miranda » 01 Mar 2018, 22:16

mothra wrote:Not an inention to antagonise in the slightest; a legitimate question. I see from your response that you merely both underappreciate and misunderstand the application of the word “hypersensitive”.

Were you not so wilfully abrasive, you would have noticed that I spoke only of my own terms of reference. The fact that you applied this to the collective “we” speaks tremendously to your general level of insecurity.

In any event, women who have undergone FGC are under absolutely no compulsion to do anything at all, let alone advocate for anyone else. Should they choose to, well then, that is fabulous. Nobody understands the holistic nature of that abuse more so than them … but we have absolutely no right to expect it of them.

There are other reasons why cutting is a preferable term yet I feel disinclined to discuss them with you, owing both to your demonstable naivity and arrogance.

Perhaps you could do some research and catch up to me?

As for my university career … perhaps you'd like to post a link to where on this forum i've mentioned that I have had anything at all to do with university? Or now might be a good time to tell us all who you are on Ozpol?

And I do believe I will survive your critique of my analysis and writing style … seeing as how you refer to an uncircumcised penis as “in tacked”. Reckon I had that one figured out before my tertiary years. Jesus christ, you don't even have the wherewithal to intuit how offensive the label "hypersensitive" is.

Would you like the dictionary definitions to the above words?


hypersensitive - easily hurt, worried, or offended:

I know exactly what it means. As a stroke survivor I suffer from hypersensitivity. I also know that my intuition is telling me that your name calling, bully tactics are bad for my health and peace of mind.
I shall go back to 'lurking' as you like to put it.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby HBS Guy » 01 Mar 2018, 22:18

That is rather a cop out, “Miranda.”
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 01 Mar 2018, 22:19

Miranda wrote:
mothra wrote:Not an inention to antagonise in the slightest; a legitimate question. I see from your response that you merely both underappreciate and misunderstand the application of the word “hypersensitive”.

Were you not so wilfully abrasive, you would have noticed that I spoke only of my own terms of reference. The fact that you applied this to the collective “we” speaks tremendously to your general level of insecurity.

In any event, women who have undergone FGC are under absolutely no compulsion to do anything at all, let alone advocate for anyone else. Should they choose to, well then, that is fabulous. Nobody understands the holistic nature of that abuse more so than them … but we have absolutely no right to expect it of them.

There are other reasons why cutting is a preferable term yet I feel disinclined to discuss them with you, owing both to your demonstable naivity and arrogance.

Perhaps you could do some research and catch up to me?

As for my university career … perhaps you'd like to post a link to where on this forum i've mentioned that I have had anything at all to do with university? Or now might be a good time to tell us all who you are on Ozpol?

And I do believe I will survive your critique of my analysis and writing style … seeing as how you refer to an uncircumcised penis as “in tacked”. Reckon I had that one figured out before my tertiary years. Jesus christ, you don't even have the wherewithal to intuit how offensive the label "hypersensitive" is.

Would you like the dictionary definitions to the above words?


hypersensitive - easily hurt, worried, or offended:

I know exactly what it means. As a stroke survivor I suffer from hypersensitivity. I also know that my intuition is telling me that your name calling, bully tactics are bad for my health and peace of mind.
I shall go back to 'lurking' as you like to put it.



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Re: Circumcision

Postby pinkeye » 02 Mar 2018, 00:15

back on topic please .

To me it will always be Female Genital Mutilation....

Sorry, but it is. And much as I can TRY to fathom the impact it has on every aspect of the lives of the young girls who have been so betrayed, I can never truly understand.

It simply shouldn't happen, whatever one chooses to call it, and ALL perpetrators should face the force of criminal law.

Anyone disagree with my previous sentence.?
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Re: Circumcision

Postby mothra » 02 Mar 2018, 01:48

pinkeye wrote:back on topic please .

To me it will always be Female Genital Mutilation....

Sorry, but it is. And much as I can TRY to fathom the impact it has on every aspect of the lives of the young girls who have been so betrayed, I can never truly understand.

It simply shouldn't happen, whatever one chooses to call it, and ALL perpetrators should face the force of criminal law.

Anyone disagree with my previous sentence.?



Yes. I disagree, if you are to present it so blankly.

The criminalisation of anything just pushes it further underground. Parents will do to dodgy "practitioners" ... be disinclined to seek medical aid ... girls will be deterred from coming forward for fear of causing retribution for their families... etc.

It is a tremendously complex issue. One that requires sensitivity and diligence ... and most importantly, the entreating of people who perform it, undergo it and submit their daughters to it.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby Vulcan » 02 Mar 2018, 11:03

mothra wrote:
pinkeye wrote:back on topic please .

To me it will always be Female Genital Mutilation....

Sorry, but it is. And much as I can TRY to fathom the impact it has on every aspect of the lives of the young girls who have been so betrayed, I can never truly understand.

It simply shouldn't happen, whatever one chooses to call it, and ALL perpetrators should face the force of criminal law.

Anyone disagree with my previous sentence.?



Yes. I disagree, if you are to present it so blankly.

The criminalisation of anything just pushes it further underground. Parents will do to dodgy "practitioners" ... be disinclined to seek medical aid ... girls will be deterred from coming forward for fear of causing retribution for their families... etc.

It is a tremendously complex issue. One that requires sensitivity and diligence ... and most importantly, the entreating of people who perform it, undergo it and submit their daughters to it.


So because you seek 'absolutism' that can never be achieved because things go 'underground' - you think 'decriminalising' it will make it better?
Now that's what you really call a 'Cop Out'. Very apathetic.
Sort of like a dirty old man leeching towards a young female for sex.
With the law there to prevent him actually 'getting away with it', he still none-the-less 'tries' (but fails).
But by 'decriminalising' his actions because apathetically he goes about it in an 'underground' manner.
The young girl is thus rendered vulnerable to his efforts that are now going to be 'acceptable'.

There is a lot of 'rubbish' coming out of a nation that seems to have too much 'freedom' on its hands to do and accept whatever it likes.
The inability to discriminate between right and wrong for fear of having a 'conviction' of discipline (like a Penal Colony) is allowing an irresponsible act of chaos to go unchecked and out of control. Just because you can ...doesn't mean you should!

As for male circumcision - I see it's justification for Medical reasons more so than religious or ceremonial or pro-entertainment reasons. But I'm sure there are many males now getting it done as 'adults' just to 'enhance' their success in their porn careers.
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Re: Circumcision

Postby johnsmith » 02 Mar 2018, 11:13

Vulcan wrote:
So because you seek 'absolutism' that can never be achieved because things go 'underground' - you think 'decriminalising' it will make it better?

where did mothra say that??
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