Brewing beer

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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 23 Aug 2018, 14:54

Queensland.

So I made a temperature controlled enclosure for fermenting. It heats or cools as required, keeps temp within + or - 0.4 degrees
That works really well, am very pleased with it. Might not handle summer that well .


Also modified a pine toybox downstairs to mature the bottled beer in. That one just cools. Is not as critical.


.................. Sanitizing Methods
• Heat. There are three methods of using heat to sanitize surfaces – steam, hot water, and hot air.
Hot water is the most common method used in restaurants.
If hot water is used in the third compartment of a three-compartment sink, it must be at least 171 F (77 C).
If a high-temperature warewashing machine is used to sanitize cleaned dishes, the final sanitizing rinse must be at least 180 F (82 C).
For stationary rack, single temperature machines, it must be at least 165 F (74 C). Cleaned items must be exposed to these temperatures for at least 30 seconds. ............


http://www.foodsafetysite.com/resources ... eaning.pdf


Am feeling better about the sun sanatizing.
Imagine how hot it would get inside there when inverted with a cork in them all.
I measured 49.5 degrees inside one on a 24 odd degree day. That heat would be there for a long time.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Aug 2018, 15:44

Hmmm don’t know of a good HBS there.

I would look around for a HBS that sells grains—the owner is more likely to be a good. When I say grain I mean grain that needs to be mashed, search websites for “mash” or “mashing.”
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Aug 2018, 15:48

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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 29 Aug 2018, 09:53

Phew, am having some success.

I had a bottle of my Coopers Dark ale last night while making a soup. Nottinghams yeast, sun sanatized.
It was bottled 6 days ago, so should not be ready for at least another 2 weeks. 'Should' taste green and bitter.
It was really nice. Smooth as. Lovely beer, probably 4.5% alcoholic.





From my very limited experience :

The Nottinghams yeast hydrated at 20 degrees is a big improvement over the standard yeast at 25 degrees.
The standard yeast does not work at 20 degrees.

Glass bottles are better than PET bottles.

Sanatizing upside down in the sun is significantly better than using a chemical sanatizer.

Rinse immediately after use using tap water.
Clean using cooled boiled water and a bottle brush seems to be ok.
Sanatize upside in sun for a week or so before bottling.




Next brew, will chemical sanatize the fermenter and bits, then rinse them with boiled cooled water.
Then use that.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 29 Aug 2018, 10:22

Good now you have that right, try and make your brews better.

That involves doing a boil.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 29 Aug 2018, 15:28

I will probably never do a full brew, boil thingie.

Can see little advantage for a lot of effort.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 29 Aug 2018, 18:39

It means you can use 750-800g dried malt cut with 200–250g dextrose plus a tea bag of hop pellets to put a bit of a nose on your beer.

I am not talking about mash brewing! :bgrin :bgrin :bgrin I am talking of a 5 minute boil to make 2L of boiling hot wort. Then you can try amber malt, wheat malt (for a wheat beer) and dark malt for a stout or porter.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 01 Sep 2018, 10:40

HBS Guy wrote:It means you can use 750-800g dried malt cut with 200–250g dextrose plus a tea bag of hop pellets to put a bit of a nose on your beer.

I am not talking about mash brewing! :bgrin :bgrin :bgrin I am talking of a 5 minute boil to make 2L of boiling hot wort. Then you can try amber malt, wheat malt (for a wheat beer) and dark malt for a stout or porter.


I had not heard of that before.
Am researching it for future experimentation.
Thanks. Looks like a possibility.
You mean this sort of a thing ?

https://www.cleverbrewing.com.au/brewing-resources/brew-in-a-bag

I'll stick to the cans of extract till I can get very good batches consistently.
My results have changed dramatically with using a better yeast at 20 degrees and not using a chemical sanatizer.
The cleaning has now got a process to it.

Did some research on buying a fridge for downstairs. For fermenting or conditioning beer in, esp over summer.
Worked out it would be better to buy a new fridge for the kitchen, move the kitchen one downstairs. False economy to buy a no name 'cheap' fridge.
It all got a bit expensive for the advantage

What I have now works well, no need to change it in a hurry.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 01 Sep 2018, 11:33

Best thing to do is just do your brewing in winter. No refrigeration needed.

No, I meant just the dried malt extracts—750–800g malt extract to 250–200g dextrose. Try matching the extract to the beer style.

Use a BIG pan, 5L for the 2L wort—the boil will try to climb out of the pan! Stir, blow, spray a little cold water on the rising wort all the time keeping a good strong boil going—don’t turn the heat down!

That will give you good results. Use the Munton’s for the specialty malts, amber, wheat and dark. So more wheat malt in a wheat beer etc. The amber malt, say 250g, will give a richness to your beers.

Adding say 10g hop pellets to the boil—nice nose. Buy Tettnanger, Saaz, Goldings, Fuggles and some of the lovely American hops, Simcoe, Amarillo etc. This won’t add any detectable bitterness to your beer—need more hops boiled for at least half an hour for that—just a nice bouquet and flavor.

Once you have this down to a fine art—we can steep some specialty grains. This isn’t mashing. Your brewday including cleanup (keep the missus happy!) will be like an hour. If you have a gas BBQ do your brewing there.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 01 Sep 2018, 20:19

HBS Guy wrote:Best thing to do is just do your brewing in winter. No refrigeration needed.

No, I meant just the dried malt extracts—750–800g malt extract to 250–200g dextrose. Try matching the extract to the beer style.

Use a BIG pan, 5L for the 2L wort—the boil will try to climb out of the pan! Stir, blow, spray a little cold water on the rising wort all the time keeping a good strong boil going—don’t turn the heat down!

That will give you good results. Use the Munton’s for the specialty malts, amber, wheat and dark. So more wheat malt in a wheat beer etc. The amber malt, say 250g, will give a richness to your beers.

Adding say 10g hop pellets to the boil—nice nose. Buy Tettnanger, Saaz, Goldings, Fuggles and some of the lovely American hops, Simcoe, Amarillo etc. This won’t add any detectable bitterness to your beer—need more hops boiled for at least half an hour for that—just a nice bouquet and flavor.

Once you have this down to a fine art—we can steep some specialty grains. This isn’t mashing. Your brewday including cleanup (keep the missus happy!) will be like an hour. If you have a gas BBQ do your brewing there.




Ah ok. Yes, that is a more than what I do now. It is not impossible.
My brew day takes probably 2 - 3 hours as it is. From when I am planning till after the cleanup. Includes sanatizing, rinsing, temp of the wort, hydrating the yeast.
Yes, a cooker downstairs would be best. So the 2L wort is ok for the 23L fermenter?

I put a bag of 'beer booster' with the malt extract. Compared with what you do, it is a minimum process.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 01 Sep 2018, 20:35

You can’t add more malt (dry extract or grains) or hops without doing a boil.

The 2L boiling hot wort takes the place of the 2L boiling water you are using now.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 02 Sep 2018, 05:19

HBS Guy wrote:You can’t add more malt (dry extract or grains) or hops without doing a boil.

The 2L boiling hot wort takes the place of the 2L boiling water you are using now.


I don't boil any water for use in the fermenter.
I boil water to use rinsing sanatizer off.
I have used some boiled water to bring the water in the fermenter up to temperature before putting the yeast in, heat up the can of yeast extract and for sanatizing water to rehydrate yeast in.

It is quite a process. It is very involving.
Last results were very good a week after bottling
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Sep 2018, 07:08

Don’t you add 2L water to the contents of the can of kit in your fermenter? Get that malt extract dissolved?
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 02 Sep 2018, 14:26

HBS Guy wrote:Don’t you add 2L water to the contents of the can of kit in your fermenter? Get that malt extract dissolved?


Ah - that is where that comes from.

I take the label off the can, the yeast off the top, put the bare unopened can in a large pot with hot water in that.
That softens the malt and lets it pour out of the can once I open it. Use the sanatized rinsed spoon to get the most of it out.

Final result is the same. I add cold water to the fermenter and some hot if required to get it up to the right temp.
I have a digital thermometer in the fermenter when filling it. In summer will have to add ice I guess.

The nottinghams yeast is a totally different beast to the yeast that comes with the cans.
It works much better. I doubt a good beer can be made with the standard yeast.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Sep 2018, 17:13

The Noittingham is a good yeast: ferments a wort out then drops out so you are left with a nice bright beer. There are other yeasts but stick with the Nottingham for a while. Concentrate on getting the hang of doing a boil, trying some of the different dry malt extracts then maybe move on to steeping some grain and making some bigger beers—kilo and a half of dry malt/dextrose, topping the fermenter to 18L etc.

And use the worksheets on the JM site to start calculating your beers.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 02 Sep 2018, 18:39

Just took a HG reading of brew #5.
Has been down for 3 days, now 1.020 on the hygrometer. Did not take a OG of it, am guessing about 1.040.

Taste and looks VERY clean. Has NONE of the chemical sanatizer tang to it as I rinsed that all off well before starting.
Am thinking the sanatizer residue affects the yeast.
Appears fermenting is slowing down. If it has stalled will try stirring it up. Have good faith in the Nottinghams working well.
Mine is at 20 C day and night, so yeast works continually.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Sep 2018, 19:33

MUST take an OG, Sprint!

The yeast not working for three days is NOT a sign the ferment is finished! It is a sign the yeast stopped working!

FG = OG/4 is a MUCH better sign the ferment is complete.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 02 Sep 2018, 20:50

yes, I forgot to take an OG.
without a starting point .......... hard to see how far it has come.

By tuesday it should be less than 1020.
If not, I will use your suggestion. Stir it up with a sanatized rinsed spoon
I am sure the nottinghams is running well.

have read can leave it in the fermentor longer rather than ASAP.

The last brew was in the fermentor 1 week and was good to drink after a week in the bottle.
that surprised me.
A better yeast, less or no chemical sanatizer, steady 20 degrees
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Sep 2018, 21:04

Could be a steady 14°C and Nottingham would still chug along steadily, if a little bit slower.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 03 Sep 2018, 08:40

HBS Guy wrote:Could be a steady 14°C and Nottingham would still chug along steadily, if a little bit slower.


Yes, the specs on the nottingham site said :

' In Lallemand’s Standard Conditions Wort at 20°C (68°F) Nottingham yeast exhibits:
Vigorous fermentation that can be completed in 4 days
High Attenuation and High Flocculation
Neutral to slightly fruity and estery flavor and aroma
The optimal temperature range for Nottingham yeast when producing traditional styles is 10°C
(50°F)* to 22°C (72°F)


*at lower temperature it is possible to ferment lager-style beers in all-malt wort within 9 days
Fermentation rate, fermentation time and degree of attenuation are dependent on inoculation density, yeast handling, fermentation temperature and nutritional quality of the wort.'


http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/nottingham-high-performance-ale-yeast/


So at 20 degrees I am at the top limit of the optimum range.


The yeast that comes with the cans of malt might be yeast for bread, least ways it stalled at 20 degrees and is targeted to 25 degrees.
ie, usual ambient.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Sep 2018, 09:47

It is a beer yeast, just not a good one. 6g is not enough and the packets are put on the tins while the malt extract inside them is still hot!

Maybe 3g live nyeast left.

Now, “nutritional value of wort” you want a wort high in malt, low in sugar.

Malt has proteins and vitamins etc.

Pitch yeast into well aerated wort * and after rehydrating (if not done beforehand) the yeast reproduces by splitting, outcompeting bad microbes. Then it turns, reluctantly, to obtaining its oxygen by reducing wort sugars and making alcohol.


* For some of my BIG beers I really went to town. I would collect the wort, put the fermenter on a fridge, a bottling tube (without the doodad on the end) put in the tap, another fermenter placed below and I would let the wort flow from the top fermenter into the one below. Late that day, fermenter on a table, another one below and let the fermenting wort run from one into the other. No problem getting these beers to ferment out.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 04 Sep 2018, 00:01

yes, I got the same problem.

last batch of coopers sparkling ale extract stalled at 1020.
the coopers dark ale went well

this coopers sparkling ale has stalled at 1020 also.
Stirred it up, it is still dormant according to the airlock.

Found these comments

' ........... If these are extract kits, its probably sure to the extract. I've had a few extract kits not make it below 1.020. I actually re did the double chocolate stout in all grain, got it down to 1.014, definitely a difference in sweetness, but both were very drinkable, so I wouldn't worry much..........

................. I second the idea that the extract had low fermentability. The so-called 1.020 curse of extract beer. I doubt your yeast would have stopped fermenting complex sugars. You can add up to 20% simple sugars and still have your yeast finish fermentation just fine. Yeast will give out if the alcohol content is too high, but assuming these beers were of "normal" gravity, I doubt pitching more yeast will help. .......


.............. I've had the same thing- many of my extract beers just wouldn't go past 1.020 even with a well attenuating ale yeast.
Next time, if you're using canned kits, toss out the Cooper's or Munton's yeast that comes with it and use nottingham dry yeast. But even using nottingham might not make the FG come much lower. It will give a better tasting product, though!
1.020 is fine, if that is where the beer stays................... '

........... I heard an interesting theory from John Palmer on the whole 1.020 thing. He pointed out that not too long ago, it was pretty normal to brew "kit and kilo", where you had a can of extract and then added a couple pounds of simple sugar. In a setup like that, you would want less fermentable extract. His theory was that some extract manufacturers have never shifted their processes from when this lower fermentability was actually a good thing.

Don't know if its an accurate theory, but it makes sense as a possibility....................


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/stuck-at-1020-could-it-be-the-fermentables.317502/

At this rate, will leave it as is, bottle it this weekend and have a lower alcohol beer.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 04 Sep 2018, 00:47

Hi, mega-noob here, haven't even completed a first brew but have a pretty strong science background

Im pretty sure I remember reading in the last week or so about brews stopping ferment at 1020 being that sometimes brewing yeasts can lose the ability to break dual and triple bond sugars like Maltose if there is too much glucose or dextrose in the mix. (Being that they're single bond sugars and far easier than breaking the bonds of a maltose)

Could that be the reason?



https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/2-x-20l-brew-both-stopped-at-1-020.71010/



.......... Hi guys just a heads up on this.

I got in touch with Brewers Coop about a re-fermentation yeast and they actually suggested a different approach: Put a 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient dissolved in little boiling water besides increasing the fermentation temperature (which I already had done).

Spot on! One day later the hydrometer was reading 1011!!

Thanks a lot guys, ..............


http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/fermentation-stuck-at-1020?id=1500433%3ATopic%3A234008&page=1#comments



But what exactly is yeast nutrient? Both Wyeast and White Labs make the stuff (Wyeast Nutrient Blend and Servomyces, respectively), but what’s going on in there? Well, every product is different, but here are some of the most common constituents of a good nutrient blend.

Diammonium phosphate (DAP) is a water-soluble salt that is often included in plant fertilizer to increase the pH of soil. It also delivers valuable nitrogen and phosphate to yeast cells. Wort is generally rich in nitrogen, but a little supplementation can help high-gravity beers complete fermentation. Phosphates also help ensure smooth fermentation of worts that contain large portions of non-malt adjuncts.
Amino acids are necessary for creating proteins and for reproduction. Yeasts can actually make most of their own amino acids, but there are a handful, termed essential amino acids, that cells must pull in from the wort they’re in. If wort happens not to have enough for one reason or another, a little boost of yeast nutrient can help keep your yeast cells happy.
Vitamins and minerals of all kinds—biotin, pantothenic acid, calcium, magnesium, potassium, and many others—are necessary for the reactions that create the compounds yeasts need to do their job. They also serve as catalysts in many of the reactions that take place during fermentation, and some even aid in flocculation and cell wall preservation.
Zinc, which falls under the mineral umbrella is one of the less common essential minerals found naturally in all-malt wort. Zinc plays a vital role in the production of ethanol, which we can all agree is pretty key to the whole beer thing.
Yeast ghosts, or yeast hulls, are basically the water-insoluble skeletons of dead yeast cells, and they’re included in many nutrient formulations, as well as available on their own. Live yeast cells cannibalize these dead cells and feed off the nutrients they contain. Gross, eh?
In most standard gravity all-malt worts, you need not worry about yeast nutrient (except perhaps zinc), but it can’t hurt to throw in a pinch or two for good measure. I usually don’t bother with nutrient in the main wort unless I’m brewing high-gravity or high-adjunct beer, but I always add a little to my yeast starters.

You’ll still make great beer without nutrient. But if you find that your beers seem a little underdone, for lack of a better term, try a pinch or two of nutrient. It might just be the boost your yeast cells need.



https://beerandbrewing.com/what-exactly-is-yeast-nutrient/
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Sep 2018, 07:18

I only made 3 kit beers then moved to partial mashing (3Kg grain + can liquid malt.) had 1" level foam.

I am leery of bottling a 1020 wort—if the yeast wakes up you have bottle bombs.

dextrose = glucose = 1 glucose ring

maltose = 2 glucose rings

maltotriose = 3 glucose rings. Fermentable by true lager yeast.

dextrines (unfermentable) 4-12 glucose rings joined together.

starch—millions of glucose rings joined in long chains. Plants have to store energy reserves as starch else a bloody yeast cell would get in there and eat it all! Brewers mash crushed malt to get the enzymes to convert the starch to the above sugars. The hotter the mash the more dextrines and the more body a beer has.

A wort full of nice malt should not need yeast nutrient. I would add some nutrient (just Diammoniumphosphate or DAP) rather than bottle at 1020. Add it, stir the yeast cake up.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 04 Sep 2018, 16:20

Rang around a few local brew shops.

1st shop I am not impressed with, he said ' let it brew out'.
Just cause I am not impressed with them does not mean they are wrong.
2nd shop appeal to me a lot more.
He asked what yeast I use. Asked how long it had been down . See the difference already ?
Then he said, 'Maybe it is fermented. Nottinghams is a lightening fast yeast, it has been SG stable for 2 days. If it is stable for 3 days it is fermented, bottle it.'
That sounds most likely. I had it at 20 degrees day and night for 4 days. I hydrated it first, it started to work within an hour.

The Nottinghams technical datas says ' ...... Vigorous fermentation that can be completed in 4 days ...... '
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