Gardening

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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Jan 2020, 17:04

The splotch of grey at the front of the photo is an 800mm deep concrete pier—want to put a fountain on that fed from and feeding a pond at the far end of the pergola. I can’t just put a fountain on a little slab—clay would crack it and tilt or even topple the fountain.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Jan 2020, 08:31

Volume of must and wine. Backyard Vineyard book gives

100' row (at 5' spacing but forget that for the moment) gives 20 to 35 gallons of wine. I will use the lower figure, remember close planted smaller vines ripen earlier, while sun is still warm.

So 30 metres yields 75L.

I have 20 + 2 x 14 metres altogether so

48 metres of vines yield (48/30) x 75 = 120L. Say 100L, worth doing. Some Malbec (Merlot too disease-prone) on pergola. Maybe 50L Riesling. So need 150L of metal or glass containers, say variable volume drum for the red and some of my bigger glass demijohns and carboy for the Riesling (can’t plant the Riesling until the house is built but might plant them in plastic buckets this year.

I also need metal or glass containers for the cider and perry.

Homebrewed beer is fermented in plastic. A beer ferment is over in a week, two weeks for a lager fermented cool. Couple weeks cold conditioning in plastic in a fridge then keg or bottle. A cider ferment might not start for a month or two! Nah, too much time needed and plastic fermenters would let in too much air for wine, cider and perry.

Red wine making is fun! The grapes are run through a crusher that also removes stems into a wide, shallow container of, for me, 200L capacity. Sulphur is added then a good, bought wine yeast is pitched. The ferment pushes the cap of skins up where they can dry and get infected with mold etc. So a stainless steel paddle is used to push the cap back down under the fermenting must. The fermenting must can also be pumped over the top of the cap. After a week (longer in Tassy, the wine is in contact with the fruit for longer) the wine is pressed and the skins are thrown on the compost heap (or whatever.)

White wine grapes are pressed and fermented. Boring.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Jan 2020, 08:56

Looks like I can get what I want in the way of barrels and casks no problem:

http://www.seguin-moreau.fr/Notre-gamme#/Notre-gamme/Les-futs

Be nice to have some American and some French oak!

A 20L oak barrel will give plenty of oak flavor in much less time than a 200L barrel would. Even so, would love to store some wine in a 20L cask a couple years!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Jan 2020, 09:54

Gewurztraminer is a good replacement for muscat! Fruity, spicy, great dessert wine! Bet it makes nice raisins too.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Jan 2020, 10:22

Hmmm hoping Riesling will grow on my block. Well, the growing won’t be a real problem it is whether the grapes will ripen! Can’t find semillon seedlings (they aren’t actual seedlings but cuttings grafted onto rootstock but I will call them seedlings) anywhere in Tassie and ight be reduced to growing. . . . . . .Chardonnay! No!

I am thinking I might buy 13 gewurztraminer to plant on one of the side fences since I want to muck around making a liqueur wine, also be table grapes.

When I order I will buy a few extras so if one or two cark it they can be replaced almost immediately.

Jeez I wish I could be there full time!
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Re: Gardening

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jan 2020, 10:35

HBS Guy wrote:Hmmm hoping Riesling will grow on my block. Well, the growing won’t be a real problem it is whether the grapes will ripen! Can’t find semillon seedlings (they aren’t actual seedlings but cuttings grafted onto rootstock but I will call them seedlings) anywhere in Tassie and ight be reduced to growing. . . . . . .Chardonnay! No!

I am thinking I might buy 13 gewurztraminer to plant on one of the side fences since I want to muck around making a liqueur wine, also be table grapes.

When I order I will buy a few extras so if one or two cark it they can be replaced almost immediately.

Jeez I wish I could be there full time!

It must get frustrating being in SA all the time.....Just put in a bit of red dye and say its Rose, that will fix it :bgrin
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Jan 2020, 10:42

As to my “parterre potager” I think square, but rotated 45° will be nice and easier to implement than a circle. Each quarter of the square can be divided into two triangles. Mix veges and flowers, look nice and will work well.

Imagine my rotated square inside the square as it was—four triangles that can be planted, one with rhubarb say, one with herbs one with tulips (gotta have tulips, I AM Dutch after all!) one with asparagus, green, purple and white (blanched) etc. Can’t wait! Other half of the backyard (the space between the big pergola and the frontmost row of pear trees planted as a shrubbery with roses around an arbor, a path that winds and enters the apple tunnel (if I build one of those) etc. Can’t plan too much in advance.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Jan 2020, 10:49

It is tremendously frustrating Don! Having to rely on others to do things. Just want to be there, feeding the six chooks (grapes need lots of nitrogen, chicken poo is a good source, eggs will likely sell and are cheap protein when I am saving up to build the gazebo etc. Love the sound of chooks happily foraging for grubs, such a comforting, domestic sound cluck cluck. Prune the apples, train the pears a bit more, prune the vines so the bunches of grapes get direct sunlight and then the whole business to learn of making cider, perry and wine. Dare say a still might appear at some point.

Want a pond, dunno what plants or fish native to Tassie I can stock it with.

Stuff to learn, can’t wait!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Jan 2020, 11:06

I kid you not, here I was reading about diseases of the grapevine and. . .

5. Grey Mold (Botryotinia fuckelina)


:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 20 Jan 2020, 17:27

I don’t want to give up on my dream of black muscat. Doesn’t ripen outside in Tassie so what about inside, in a greenhouse?

Peter Cundall reckons in Tassie table grapes should be grown in an unheated greenhouse but I have no idea how much that lengthens the growing season. Not having much luck Googling.

Not too urgent but maybe the Royal Horticultural Society has a book on it? This would be at the side of the house so can’t be started until the house is finished—seen the junk builders throw into the yard?
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 21 Jan 2020, 09:19

OK, sort of found an answer:

The in the fall, the greenhouse extended our growing season by about 2 months


https://www.mrcrazykicks.com/how-much-can-a-greenhouse-extend-the-growing-season/

OK, he doesn’t mention grapes but some indication. His greenhouse does not keep temperature at night and that is fine as high night time temperatures (what AGW is doing) are not good for plants. This would let me grow midseason grapes:

Perlette Seedless Mid
Pale green berry is crisp and juicy. Larger than Thompson and two weeks earlier.
Requires less summer heat than Thompson to ripen. Self-fruitful.

Can use for juice, sultanas, eating.


And, tara!

Muscat Hamburg Mid
(Black Hamburg) Black berries with full muscat flavor and
heavy bloom let fully ripen on vine

Now I am happy!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 21 Jan 2020, 10:50

Hmmm as well as extending the fall season the greenhouse started growth two months earlier in spring.

Muscat possible, black muscat definitely and white muscat maybe.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Jan 2020, 10:03

There is something a little bit weird about growing grapes in a polytunnel/greenhouse: you plant the vines OUTSIDE the greenhouse and train them to grow into the greenhouse. Need less water that way apparently.

Now a grapevine, if left unpruned, can grow to thirty metres in length. maybe more in a greenhouse so 2-3 vines should give enough fruit for what I want: wine, table grapes, currants/sultanas/raisins. Do need to remove some bunches and to trim the bunches I keep for bigger (table grapes) and higher quality (wine, dried fruit) grapes.

Of course, with my lovely soil, I will need to have posts placed deep into the ground and cemented in place. $$$ but only needs to be done once. Will get that done when the piers or stumps. for the house are put in place—costs to hire an auger and to have people come from the nearest big town
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Jan 2020, 08:01

As you might remember if you paid attention, I planted a Bramley’s Seedling in my Tassie block. Quite the story!

If you want to look up the full details.

In 1809 a little girl planted some apple pips in a pot. One did well and that tree, despite being severely damaged in a violent storm in 1900, is still bearing fruit today! The girl’s name was Mary Anne Brailsford—so why is it called Bramley’s seedling you ask?

The cottage and garden—including that apple tree—were sold forty years later to a butcher by the name Bramley. He let someone harvest some wood from the tree to propagate it but insisted his name be used.

There was another Mary somewhat later and on the other side of the world who saw a seedling apple tree growing from her compost heap. That was Mary Mae Smith and the seedling, of course, was the Granny Smith apple—this Mary being quite a shrewd marketer, got her name on that apple!

And I have the two trees from the two Marys growing side by side in my Tassie garden! (Not a coincidence, the Granny Smith being a great pollinator and the Bramley being a triploid tree means it needs a strong pollinator near it if not two.) The tree on the other side of the Bramley is (will be, the one I planted in September is the only apple tree that died) John Downie crabapple, white blossom crabs being great pollinators

The Granny Smith is a cross between the French Crab and another apple tree. Couple nice stories there :bgrin
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Jan 2020, 12:53

I am, it must be admitted, bloody stupid! I assume too much! What did I rashly assume? That the Green Horse perry pears I bought from Victoria are dwarf trees. Nope, standard!

I can see I will have to rip out the first tree and the third tree (this particular tree is barely hanging on to life anyway) then the second tree will have 3metres space on either side of it. The fourth tree will have to go as well then one yellow huffcap perry pear can fill out the trellis.

For the Gin and Moorcroft perry pears they have 19-4 metres = 15 metres. Three trees then can have five metres of space. with dwarf trees would need 7 trees per row so 4 less trees per row, $240 or so saving!

Standard trees (grow to full size of 5 metres if not pruned back or espaliered) have more vigor and more disease resistance than dwarf trees so am happy to have standard trees, just need to find out how much space they will take up or I should let them take up.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Jan 2020, 16:08

My orchard is a veritable United Nations!
I have American, English and “Italian” apples (Court Pendu Plat, said to be the apple the Romans brought in from the Middle east) and Australian (the Granny Smith.) American apples are King David and McIntosh. Dunno how far back the Court Pendu Plat goes but it was recorded in 1400s England. Irresistable to an antiques buff like myself.

Pears include French, Belgian, English and Australian (Packham’s Triumph) but not American.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 27 Jan 2020, 06:30

Hmmmm allowing 4 metres of the espalier for each standard perry pear I can add one more eating pear to my three rows. I have chosen:

1. Josephine (Jospehine de Malines,Belgium.
Ripens: April - May
A smaller pear with a unique melting soft flesh beneath a fine glossy light green skin covered in a little russet. Memorable texture once tasted! From Belgium 1830


2. Beurre D’Anjou
Ripens: April
This late ripening pear originates in the Anjou region of France . . . yellowish white juicy flesh that’s highly flavoured, and bears heavily and regularly.


3. Glou Morceau “Dainty Morsel”
Ripens April
A small to medium pear, with a delightful light melting flesh, juicy and fine.


All sounds good to me! Hope to sell some at a farmers market along with eggs and some apples and veges. Pity I can’t sell my cider, perry, mead and beer :roll :bgrin
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 27 Jan 2020, 06:37

Been reading this in the small hours of this morning. Found this:

http://www.cideroz.com/
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 27 Jan 2020, 13:16

This fucking crab comes from Oregon!

https://www.heritagefruittrees.com.au/the-prairie-crabapple-malus-ioensis/

Will definitely add one when designing the apple tunnel or, more appropriately, plant them either side of my drive!

Been thinking about the apple tunnel in between finalising the plantings of this year, double checking pollination partners etc etc. Diagonally across my “backyard” so can sit in the gazebo and look down the length of it to the rose arbor which leads on to the “orchard, guiding the visitor down the path between the furthest (from the back fence) row of cider apples and the first row of pear trees and to the small pergola and down to the grape hothouse and out.

Apart from that would like to plant rare apple varieties: Bloody Ploughman, Worcester Pearmain, Geeveston Fanny and others. Geeveston Fanny used to be the main apple grown in Tasmania. Lots of apples—to sell! Apple varieties—to save!

Roses and apples are related and rosehips do look a bit like tiny apples.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Jan 2020, 07:44

Wow! Got an informative reply to my email to Heritage Fruit Trees! They politely informed me I had confused standard trees for seedling trees and told me 2.5–4m spacing with wires at least 30cm apart was best. Had decided on the 4m spacing and will stick to 40cm spacing: 60, 100, 140, 180.

It is rare to get a reply to an email from an Australian company—two other nurseries have not responded to my emails, it is like they don’t want my money, weird!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 29 Jan 2020, 18:48

OK my soil is decomposed basalt and I presume the bedrock is more solid, unweathered basalt. Thank god not limestone which really would make lowering soil pH impossible instead of difficult.

Worked out my tree order: $1200 :OMG 27 trees, 54 vines.

Thinking of the limited time I have, scratch the vines for this year, where they are to go just spread compost and mulch then water with iron sulphate and potassium sulphate in the water (lowers pH, adds nutrients.) Vines start bearing rather earlier than apple trees etc so a years delay is no problem. Replace the three dead cherry trees with 2 new cherry trees and one peach tree OK. Plant 7 perry pears and three great European eating pears OK. Move eight cider apples—won’t be easy but OK. Plant 10 other apple trees—OK.
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Re: Gardening

Postby karlrand » 31 Jan 2020, 08:11

HBS Guy wrote:OK my soil is decomposed basalt and I presume the bedrock is more solid, unweathered basalt. Thank god not limestone which really would make lowering soil pH impossible instead of difficult.

Worked out my tree order: $1200 :OMG 27 trees, 54 vines.

Thinking of the limited time I have, scratch the vines for this year, where they are to go just spread compost and mulch then water with iron sulphate and potassium sulphate in the water (lowers pH, adds nutrients.) Vines start bearing rather earlier than apple trees etc so a years delay is no problem. Replace the three dead cherry trees with 2 new cherry trees and one peach tree OK. Plant 7 perry pears and three great European eating pears OK. Move eight cider apples—won’t be easy but OK. Plant 10 other apple trees—OK.

Keep an eye out for Sawfly larvae attacking peach trees. quinces, cherries,flowering cherries, pears etc. They’re a real problem in Tasmania overwintering on Hawthorn hedges then emerging on the first very hot say of summer. Ordinary pressure pack fly spray kills them instantly. However, you then won’t be able to claim fruit as ‘organic’.
Last edited by karlrand on 31 Jan 2020, 08:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Jan 2020, 08:35

Ah, OK.

When I am living there I can spray with kaolin clay suspension, puts a thin film of clay on leaves & fruit, gets rid of a lot of leaf eating insects. For now, 1000Km away, all I can do is hope and have a local water the trees.
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Re: Gardening

Postby karlrand » 31 Jan 2020, 08:46

HBS Guy wrote:Ah, OK.

When I am living there I can spray with kaolin clay suspension, puts a thin film of clay on leaves & fruit, gets rid of a lot of leaf eating insects. For now, 1000Km away, all I can do is hope and have a local water the trees.


Tried that and the sawfly larvae laughed at it.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Jan 2020, 18:14

Some nice rain here, with donder en bliksem, also rain in Tassie, yes!
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