Gardening

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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Sep 2018, 14:08

OK, new outline plus boundary lengths drawn in. Made a couple mistakes including using a 2H pencil instead of a 2B :oops but when a scan is made or copy is printed pencil lines don’t show up so no big deal. Have to draw in the 3 sided (almost quarter circle) bite taken out of the southwest corner of the block. Then draw in the deep rip lines then position the trees.

Get a copy made, paper and scan. Then sometime can draw in where the understory plants go plus the long raspberry bed.
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 07 Sep 2018, 20:28

HBS Guy wrote:OK, new outline plus boundary lengths drawn in. Made a couple mistakes including using a 2H pencil instead of a 2B :oops but when a scan is made or copy is printed pencil lines don’t show up so no big deal. Have to draw in the 3 sided (almost quarter circle) bite taken out of the southwest corner of the block. Then draw in the deep rip lines then position the trees.

Get a copy made, paper and scan. Then sometime can draw in where the understory plants go plus the long raspberry bed.


Sounds like you have done good work there.

I also did 'cut outs' of trees, stuck them on, drew in the path in my plans.
It made a good difference, I could imagine it better, became more tangible.
Still came out similar to the original plan. Things like that are a lot of work though. It will be there for a very long time.
Have to get it right.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Sep 2018, 21:14

Yes. Going by the nursery info I planted the trees so that along the south and east boundaries there is 1m free space—have to be able to prune, spray and pick fruit! I dunno know how wide the bloody apple trees will grow but I will train and prune to have the meter clear space.

The northern boundary foilage extend to 19 metres from the southern boundary, leaving 21.3 - 19 = 2.3m clear. Leave 1m clear along the northern bounday/fence, leaves 1.3m. To plant raspberries, given my alkaline soil I will need to make a raised bed. Make that 750mm wide (incl any sleepers etc) leaves 1.3-.75 = .55m path between the raspberries and the apple trees in the back part of that side of the garden. OK prune/train the apple trees a bit.

Want it like that so if the owner of the block to my south puts up a house and fence my raspberries will still get sun. Not going to obsess about it, won’t plant the raspberries until the house is finished (and the builders’ rubble is raked up and chucked out.) I could make the back part, for the fall raspberries narrower—just how many can I eat and preserve etc? So can make the back part of the raspberry bed like 500mm wide, gives that one metre gap between apple and berries. At the back the berries will get morning sun, being close to the eastern boundary. Can plant the first 3 trees closest to the side fence (first tree in each of the three rows) maybe 200mm further to the south than on my plan, no probs with that.

Gets tricky. I do need to sort out the understory plantations (not going to draw in the clivia, comfrey etc for each tree, maybe do that for one tree, won’t draw in the herbs I plant as companion plants, maybe just indicate on one row.) Reckon I could get the red currants, pepperberry ordered next year, drive/fly down in Oct and plant them.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Sep 2018, 21:49

Hadn’t thought of making cutout trees! But I am not making a decorative garden. Once plan is done I will put tracing paper over it, copy the tree locations then draw in the crowns (say circle 4cm diameter) and the understory, mark in the mounds and swales, drainage and irrigation.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Sep 2018, 05:53

That settled, have returned to the “Little Fruit Tree” book, chapter on pruning.

Author points out that in winter the resources of the tree: moisture, nutrients, hormones etc are in the trunk and root system (in deciduous trees like mine. Prune a branch—the tree can recover from that cut and grow a new one as long before the end of the growing period. Trees are still dormant even when they are in blossom!

Summer pruning (summer solstice and maybe two months later) removes the resources the tree has put in the branch/twigs you remove so no resources left to regrow what you pruned!

In winter when the branches are bare you can remove for shape, cut off diseased branches or those crowding the centre etc. Summer pruning is for keeping the size of the tree manageable.


So—buy some suitable semi dwarf fruit trees for your area, benefit from the increased vigor, health and precocity as well as its longer life and disease resistance then prune in summer to keep the size manageable, 2m or 2.5. Fruit with no chemical poisons sprayed on it, eaten off the tree when it is perfectly ripe—so good! I used to head to my peach tree and eat 12 ripe peaches in one go, juice dripping down my chin! Hmmmmm! Any excess I preserved in light sugar syrup with lemon zest and some lemon juice for the acidity and a bit of cinnamon and a couple cloves. Eat that in winter—the sun on your plate (or in your bowl I suppose) not as good as fresh but so nice. Peach tree is pretty much dead and not going to replace it here, definitely will do what I can to grow 3-4 peach trees in the same hole. LOVE peaches!
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 08 Sep 2018, 09:21

HBS Guy wrote:Yes. Going by the nursery info I planted the trees so that along the south and east boundaries there is 1m free space—have to be able to prune, spray and pick fruit! I dunno know how wide the bloody apple trees will grow but I will train and prune to have the meter clear space.

The northern boundary foilage extend to 19 metres from the southern boundary, leaving 21.3 - 19 = 2.3m clear. Leave 1m clear along the northern bounday/fence, leaves 1.3m. To plant raspberries, given my alkaline soil I will need to make a raised bed. Make that 750mm wide (incl any sleepers etc) leaves 1.3-.75 = .55m path between the raspberries and the apple trees in the back part of that side of the garden. OK prune/train the apple trees a bit.

Want it like that so if the owner of the block to my north puts up a house and fence my raspberries will still get sun. Not going to obsess about it, won’t plant the raspberries until the house is finished (and the builders’ rubble is raked up and chucked out.) I could make the back part, for the fall raspberries narrower—just how many can I eat and preserve etc? So can make the back part of the raspberry bed like 500mm wide, gives that one metre gap between apple and berries. At the back the berries will get morning sun, being close to the eastern boundary. Can plant the first 3 trees closest to the side fence (first tree in each of the three rows) maybe 200mm further to the south than on my plan, no probs with that.

Gets tricky. I do need to sort out the understory plantations (not going to draw in the clivia, comfrey etc for each tree, maybe do that for one tree, won’t draw in the herbs I plant as companion plants, maybe just indicate on one row.) Reckon I could get the red currants, pepperberry ordered next year, drive/fly down in Oct and plant them.



What a great project to have.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Sep 2018, 12:22

Six cherry trees—be looking to flog quite a bit to tourists! Same with Beauty of Bath, an early apple, same with raspberries!

I reckon find out where some aged people live, leave surplus produce by their door.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Sep 2018, 12:57

Early stage of drawing up final plan. Green line is the edge of the crowns of the third row of cider apple trees. Red rectangle is the area within which the cherry trees will be planted.

Will leave it for now—fiddly work and I don’t have a proper draughting table and tools. Do some more tomorrow.

Cherries will be planted in triangle half a metre high with one right angle and two 45° angles. Gives a triangle with 750mm sides. Be good.

The three-sided bite taken out of my block (25sqm gone just because the block next to mine MIGHT become a side road! {sob!}
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Sep 2018, 13:13

Looking at that, cherry trees will have to go into row (or deep rip) 5. That is fine—been dug and compost dug in!
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 08 Sep 2018, 19:46

HBS Guy wrote:Early stage of drawing up final plan. Green line is the edge of the crowns of the third row of cider apple trees. Red rectangle is the area within which the cherry trees will be planted.

Will leave it for now—fiddly work and I don’t have a proper draughting table and tools. Do some more tomorrow.

Cherries will be planted in triangle half a metre high with one right angle and two 45° angles. Gives a triangle with 750mm sides. Be good.

The three-sided bite taken out of my block (25sqm gone just because the block next to mine MIGHT become a side road! {sob!}



Looks like a fine plan to me.
I did mine by hand. Gave a copy to Wife, we filled in our own versions.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Sep 2018, 20:05

Funny, was getting tangled up working things out by drawing a plan. Got sick of that, used a spreadsheet. Then the spreadsheet made it too hard to work out the cherry trees so I did it on the plan!

Lot of turmoil but now much more informed as to what the trees will do and how to control them. Well, still lots to learn about pruning etc.

Get the trees done then work out the understory plantings, currants and berries. Which like light, which prefer shade which want dappled shade.

There are some native Tassie berries, want some of them for sure!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 09 Sep 2018, 10:24

Bit more detail on the plan, have marked the position and names of the cider apple trees. This has not changed for quite a while. You can see that some of my trees will have been in a tree bag fro 2 years by the time I plant them. I thought I was being smart by ordering ahead of time so the trees would be bearing really well by the time I moved in there. They will be. Problem is—they did not get the early, draconian prune that shapes the tree and sets it up for a healthy, long life.

I can do something about it but it won’t be as good as pruning a new tree planted shortly after delivery. I did tell the guy to give them a prune but dunno if he did. The “Grow a Little Fruit Tree” book does cover the late draconian prune and I will look on the web too.

The trees won’t be pot bound—they are not in a pot like you see in nurseries. They are in 42Kg tree bags.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 09 Sep 2018, 14:48

OK, worked out the cherry trees. Plant the base tree 1.5m from the edge of Row 5, measure up 650mm, then 375mm either side gives the spots for the other two trees.

An equilateral triange, all 3 sides 750mm long. Draw that in tomorrow. Get it copied and scanned. Leaves plenty of room in Rows 4 & 5 for perry pears.
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 09 Sep 2018, 17:57

HBS Guy wrote:Funny, was getting tangled up working things out by drawing a plan. Got sick of that, used a spreadsheet. Then the spreadsheet made it too hard to work out the cherry trees so I did it on the plan!

Lot of turmoil but now much more informed as to what the trees will do and how to control them. Well, still lots to learn about pruning etc.

Get the trees done then work out the understory plantings, currants and berries. Which like light, which prefer shade which want dappled shade.

There are some native Tassie berries, want some of them for sure!



.................. Funny, was getting tangled up working things out by drawing a plan. Got sick of that, used a spreadsheet. Then the spreadsheet made it too hard to work out the cherry trees so I did it on the plan! ...............


hahahah

My plans were very hand drawn.
Your plans are artwork
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Sep 2018, 10:56

OK, plan for the garden is complete. Still have to add measurements but the design is done.

Understory plants and my 40 metre 750mm wide raspberry bed needs to be drawn in but these are 2020 type jobs. Drawn up the plan for the plantings April next year. Still some decisions to make: do I get swales dug and if so what width, what depth. Again, rather later, draw in some perry pear trees and some eating/cooking apples: these will be stepover apples I think, make my flower/veg/herb patch between the trees and the house a parterre type garden with step over apples being the dividers. Look nice—and just how many apples can I eat anyway? Saying that—definitely try to graft a scion from the stepover winesap apple tree to a root from one of the two cider apples I won’t use: gorgeous apple juice with complex flavor—what is called vinous. Oh yes please!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Sep 2018, 11:10

Sprintcyclist wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Funny, was getting tangled up working things out by drawing a plan. Got sick of that, used a spreadsheet. Then the spreadsheet made it too hard to work out the cherry trees so I did it on the plan!

Lot of turmoil but now much more informed as to what the trees will do and how to control them. Well, still lots to learn about pruning etc.

Get the trees done then work out the understory plantings, currants and berries. Which like light, which prefer shade which want dappled shade.

There are some native Tassie berries, want some of them for sure!



.................. Funny, was getting tangled up working things out by drawing a plan. Got sick of that, used a spreadsheet. Then the spreadsheet made it too hard to work out the cherry trees so I did it on the plan! ...............


hahahah

My plans were very hand drawn.
Your plans are artwork


Well, 18 trees to plant, plus subsidiary plantings (currants, gooseberries, pepperberries etc) thought I would do it that way. Plus needed a plan to show the tractor guy where to deep rip so a regular plan was needed. Guess I would have done it like this anyway tho. That’s just me. As I said, others plant much more irregularly and that would be fun: not on my soil that needed deep ripping to avoid creating a hardpan below where the soil is cultivated so necessity and inclination coincided.

Of course, I might have done things differently IF the flipping nursery had provided realistic information as to likely tree heights! But I can manage, based on some useful books and (eventually) the Cider Apple Group. If I can build a platform say 500mm high and get extendable pruning tools I can let the cider apple trees grow to 4m or so. Don’t have to eat all the produce, just wash mill and press!
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 10 Sep 2018, 12:37

18 trees to plant .........

I could see that alone taking about a month
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Sep 2018, 16:17

Hmm, actually got that wrong, “only” 16 trees to plant.

16 days to do it in, less 2 Saturdays off (or half days off at least, no full day, shopping in morning) AND have a couple of days to drive around, visit a winery or cidery or two. In fact there is another craft brewery I found! Yay!
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Sep 2018, 00:13

Ah well - ONLY 16 !!!!!


hahahahah
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Sep 2018, 00:20

If I get the guy with the tractor to deeply scarify the soil/clay digging the holes will be MUCH easier!

I put my cherry trees 75mm apart, not sure now how I got that figure. Book says 18" apart which is 46cm. Will keep it as is, use pruning/bending to keep the trees low (I guess they will be a bit tall but who cares, that will be taken care of by bending. They won’t be 12–14' tall.
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Sep 2018, 08:36

HBS Guy wrote:If I get the guy with the tractor to deeply scarify the soil/clay digging the holes will be MUCH easier!

I put my cherry trees 75mm apart, not sure now how I got that figure. Book says 18" apart which is 46cm. Will keep it as is, use pruning/bending to keep the trees low (I guess they will be a bit tall but who cares, that will be taken care of by bending. They won’t be 12–14' tall.



I had a thought for you this morning.

Can the guy with the tractor dig the holes for you as well while he is there?
Does he have different attachments ? Even a post hole auger will help a lot.
Ask him before he arrives about what you want.
This could be a game changer.
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Sep 2018, 10:26

Nope! Well the guy maybe could do it but EVERY book and website says NO! Dig holes in advance they can fill up with rain water and “glaze” the sides of the holes. He does the scarifying half the work of digging the holes is done!
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Sep 2018, 10:27

What he could maybe do—when I am there!!!—is dig post holes for the cherry trees so I can bend the branches and tie them to the poles.
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Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Sep 2018, 11:32

Be good to enlist his help as much as possible.
perhaps ask for any suggestions he has ?

Might end up with him for 2 days and ALL the trees planted
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Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Sep 2018, 11:49

That would be nice! That is a bloody good idea, Sprint!

He could dig four holes a day, help me plant them (2 man job really) then I prune and water, bring up mulch etc. 4 days and the job is done.

Ahhhh 12 days visiting wineries and cideries, walk to the top of Mt Wellington, spend days on West Coast, exploring the Tarquin etc.

A beautiful dream! Could well be doable, depends what other work he has, I suppose.

I will need to be there tho, he made some stuff ups earlier this year.
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