Renewable energy developments

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Expand view Topic review: Renewable energy developments

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 16 Jul 2018, 12:12

Solar will be pumping in summer. With a windfarm, they need to shut down in big storms but that will be managed much better than at the statewide blackout—lessons have been learned.

I am not averse to having a nice nuke plant somewhere near Pt Augusta. Would be a fillip to the state and provide that stable strong power industry needs. That said, solar on rooftops is expanding from residences only to residential and commercial roofs—nice decentralised power so the grid is a bit less important.

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Panther » 16 Jul 2018, 11:34

HBS Guy wrote:We have a hot summer I am worried the big battery will explode. One did in the US somewhere, hopefully lessons have been learned. This coming summer could be a bitch because of the El Nino developing in the Pacific. Be a pity—we need several big batteries to keep the network running with our aging coal fleet.


And with other electrical devices coming online day to day....cars, etc.....the dependency will be pressing the solar & wind facilities to their breaking points.

How long can those facilities be expected to run on peak load/demand before "bending" to the constant stress? ....... Like a typical 2-3 week Adelaide type south-eastern heat wave? Image

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 16 Jul 2018, 11:32

they have engulfed those big tesla batteries in flames and they havent reacted....

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 16 Jul 2018, 11:12

We have a hot summer I am worried the big battery will explode. One did in the US somewhere, hopefully lessons have been learned. This coming summer could be a bitch because of the El Nino developing in the Pacific. Be a pity—we need several big batteries to keep the network running with our aging coal fleet.

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Panther » 16 Jul 2018, 11:05

@ DonDeeHippy Thanks Image ImageImage

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 16 Jul 2018, 10:57

Panther wrote:Please forgive me......new to this forum, & not all up on this discussion in this thread.

That said, SOLAR POWER.

Solar Power Farms are springing up all across the country.

I have a simple, layman's question regarding solar power.

Solar panels have improved greatly over the past 10 years.

I've been told that they do have limitations though. Like their lifespan. How long should these new solar panels last? And, is it true that during it's lifespan, as time passes, their efficiency drops so that at the end of their life span they generate much less than half the energy they did when they were new?

If a small Solar Farm cost say $50 million to build (just costs for the panels & wiring), at the tipping point of efficiency....how much would it cost, in future dollars, to replace all the "worn out" or "inefficient" panels?


Oh, & while we're at it.........Storage batteries used to store solar power......their dangers?......their life spans?......their efficiency during their life spans?.......their replacement costs?....

The same would apply to Electric Automobile Batteries too?? Or are they quite different in all aspects? If so, how so?

If all this has been covered already, please .... if you can.....provide me the links so I can look over the documentation.

Thanks Image Image

ok rule of thumb solar panels last around 20 years(guarenteed i should say they can last longer). Depends on the panel its about .5% a year drop so 90% efficent after 20 years (i have a friend that has a 35 year old solar panel thats still full capasity of a whole 9watts).
Major solar is the cheepest new power now and still going down in price.

Batteries.. well the Tesla ones r guarenteed for 10 years, and should be about 80% capasity at 10 years, they will last longer probably about 15 years.Thats with Lithium
Lithium chemistry is non toxic there is a bit of cobolt in there that is toxic
Redflow batteries probably last the longest and for ground storage r a good option too. ALso after 20 years u only need to replace the liquid. Very low energy dencity and lots of room to improve.
Redflow i think is salt not sure of toxisity.
Lithium in cars should last around 2000 full recharges. A Tesla will do 600km's a charge so thats 1.2 million km , then be at 80% so about 480km range. Tesla say the batteries will last 1.6 million km's (1 million Miles)
:thumb :thumb
so many links out there,
https://cleantechnica.com/
a good site with both car and renewable energy in it.

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Panther » 16 Jul 2018, 10:41

Please forgive me......new to this forum, & not all up on this discussion in this thread.

That said, SOLAR POWER.

Solar Power Farms are springing up all across the country.

I have a simple, layman's question regarding solar power.

Solar panels have improved greatly over the past 10 years.

I've been told that they do have limitations though. Like their lifespan. How long should these new solar panels last? And, is it true that during it's lifespan, as time passes, their efficiency drops so that at the end of their life span they generate much less than half the energy they did when they were new?

If a small Solar Farm cost say $50 million to build (just costs for the panels & wiring), at the tipping point of efficiency....how much would it cost (compared to original new), in future dollars, to replace all the "worn out" or "inefficient" panels?


Oh, & while we're at it.........Storage batteries used to store solar power......their dangers?......their life spans?......their efficiency during their life spans?.......their replacement costs?....

The same would apply to Electric Automobile Batteries too?? Or are they quite different in all aspects? If so, how so?

If all this has been covered already, please .... if you can.....provide me the links so I can look over the documentation.

Thanks Image Image

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by MilesAway » 04 Jul 2018, 15:49

Well, all I said was that electricity generation remains the main game.... still: 6000 per week for Tesla is the next goal and if that is met then I think we can truly say we are seeing a world that is turning.

It's nice to see the big names coming on board, of course, aswell! Competition might even happen :bgrin

I would like to see an electric car take on le mans like some loser from oz pol said the other day but to say that an electric car has to beat that sort of bench-mark (saying that the pine thingy mountain climby thing was not a good enough benchmark basically,... blah blah blah) before it's classed as legitimate is just the same old vomit this world has been digesting for decades and it makes no sense to draw stupid lines like that.

Diminishing returns are a reality.... so is the will to power. So where do we go from here? :beer :beer :beer

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by johnsmith » 04 Jul 2018, 15:41

HBS Guy wrote:Good post DRAH! :thumb


I know .... I can't believe it :b :b :b

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 04 Jul 2018, 15:21

Good post DRAH! :thumb

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by MilesAway » 04 Jul 2018, 14:57

DonDeeHippy wrote:
MilesAway wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Yeah—but Tesla has achieved their goal of 5000 Model 3s per week.

Is that a stable figure going forward? If so congratulations are in order!

It’s not stable atm but give it a few weeks and it will be, they pretty well grabbed everyone to do it and they made 7000 cars in 7 days so pretty amazing.
They are aiming for 6000 by the end of August with the model3 :thumb

Cool.

I just had a google and they're saying BP bought a charge company because they expect Britain to have 12 million electric cars on the road by 2040. Googling cars on the road in Britain it said about 32 million in 2016 so by the time 2040 comes around 12 million could represent as little as 10%

So, even if it represented 20% of cars on the road electric cars won't be saving us from global warming if the rate of change is too fast.

The bulk of the heavy lifting has to be done at the electricity generation stage. I see electric cars as trying to push that case but the case for changing electricity generation will ultimately need to stand on it's own two feet.

:bike :bike

Saying all this the arctic sea ice is still trending lower of course but there was no real jaw dropping melt event this year. I think Greenland had a bad hair day at one point but that was about it.

There's another month of 'summer' so we'll see but Trump can probably get away with doing bugger all and still win that second term for instance. His priority is 'the economy' so it will be up to the people to demand change with their feet.

Of course, I would like to see electric fast-chargers for cars become an election issue sooner rather than later. This used to be called the clever country for buggeries sake and our national anthem breathes a plethora of sunshine and plains o which to capture it so it's really a no-brainer in my obviously humble opinion!

:beer

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 04 Jul 2018, 14:33

MilesAway wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Yeah—but Tesla has achieved their goal of 5000 Model 3s per week.

Is that a stable figure going forward? If so congratulations are in order!

It’s not stable atm but give it a few weeks and it will be, they pretty well grabbed everyone to do it and they made 7000 cars in 7 days so pretty amazing.
They r aiming for 6000 by the end of August with the model3 :thumb

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by MilesAway » 04 Jul 2018, 14:28

MilesAway wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Yeah—but Tesla has achieved their goal of 5000 Model 3s per week.

Is that a stable figure going forward? If so congratulations are in order!

That's 25 000 cars a year!

:beer

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 04 Jul 2018, 13:27

Should be stable, Tesla built a semi-permanent structure and opened a new Model3 production line.

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by MilesAway » 04 Jul 2018, 12:46

HBS Guy wrote:Yeah—but Tesla has achieved their goal of 5000 Model 3s per week.

Is that a stable figure going forward? If so congratulations are in order!

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by MilesAway » 04 Jul 2018, 12:43

HBS Guy wrote:ahahah Point Piper floating mansions.

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Yeh, when?

*** It's a numbers game bruther,... remember!!??!!!!

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 04 Jul 2018, 12:09

yeah the car will fall apart before the drivetrain, just put the drive train in a old car and instant renovation of a classic :)

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 04 Jul 2018, 12:05

One car last a lifetime. . .apart from plastic and rubber parts cracking from the heat in summer eventually.

Still, replace upholstery after 10 years. . .new paint job like a new car.

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 04 Jul 2018, 12:01

yup car dealers almost make as much on a car from after services as the original purchase... most of that will disappear.
Also a electric car will easily do over 1 million km's (Tesla's will do 1.6 Million) so resale will be impressive and with over the air updates and just upgrading a part u can have the same car a lot longer( and same advancements as a new one). :bgrin :bgrin

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 04 Jul 2018, 10:59

There is another saving. An EV would need a fraction of the servicing an ICE needs.

An ICE is a Rube Goldberg machine where water is heated then needs to be cooled. Fuel pump, oil pump and water pump. Ignition coil, distributor, alternator, battery. Radiator. Gear box and differential. Bearings. Manifold & exhaust pipe(s) spewing pollution, CO, CO2, N2O. Computer chip. Brakes turning motion into heat: asbestos.

An EV = battery + electric motor. Computer chip. Regenerative braking, brake pads for emergency stopping/handbrake? Bearings. No pollution if using renewable power (solar panels, windmill + battery.)

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 04 Jul 2018, 09:22

I saw a article in The Australian about electric cars and how in 50 years they will take over.
So I got to thinking well that would be a lot of reorganizing.

Reading up on electric cars, it seams the biggest advantage is that the owners unless going on a big trip , never have to goto a gas station again, just drive for the day then plug in at home and recharge the vehicle at night. Tesla have about 600km's of range
So most recharging will be at night and at off peak hours , solar panels wont work well there.
So I googled and worked this out

The estimated number of motor vehicles registered in Australia was 18.2 million.
These vehicles travelled an estimated total of 249,512 million kilometres in Australia, with an average 13,716 kilometres per vehicle.
Total fuel consumption by all road registered vehicles was 32,732 megalitres.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/9208.0/

ok that's 685,000,000 Km's a day done in Australia
The average EV uses .18 mwh for a Kilometre
Thats 123 GWH a day
It cost 100 million for the 135mwh Tesla Battery in SA
so 10 of them would be 1.35 Gwh and 1 billion dollars
1000 of them would be 135 gwh and cost 100 billion dollars.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/australia-s-largest-solar-plant-to-bui...

It looks Like solar panels r about 1 million per GWh in Aus atm
so lets be kind and say 5 hours a day average, so they need 25gwh of solar panels to power all of aussies vehicle's
That's 25 Billion
Add 10 Billion for incedentals
So at todays prices it would cost 135 Billion dollars to Power every Vehicle in Australia.
the panels will last 20 years the battery 10 years .

Ok Now lets look at Fuel not used
32,732 megalitres (thats a million) a year
so 32,732,000,000 litres a year
to make it easy say fuel is $1,50 a Litre
$49,098,000,000 a year is spend on fuel
49 Billion Dollars

So fuel over 10 years will be 490 Billion Dollars
Battery and solar will be 135 Billion Dollars.
and the solar panels will still be good for 10 years, and the batteries will still be usable just less capacity, all the buildings and site prep is done so only the cost of replacing the battery for the next 10 years
So over 10 years if australia goes fully Electric there will be a saving of 355 Billion dollars in fuel costs alone
Also once installed solar and battery wont go up in price for 10 years, do u think petrol will still be $1.5 in 10 years
The Biggist winner here will be Australia as Australia imports 95% of its fuel from overseas

So even if the materials to build if r from overseas, the labour will come from here and the 355 billions dollars will still be in Australian hands as savings to our population

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by johnsmith » 04 Jul 2018, 09:18

DonDeeHippy wrote:http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1530519265/30#42I just worked out how much it would cost and the savings if every vehicle in Australia went Electric, I was actually surprized at the savings :)
in 10 years there would be a saving of AUs of 355 billion dollars from not using fuel. :thumb



if those numbers are correct that is a huge savings

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 04 Jul 2018, 08:04

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1530519265/30#42I just worked out how much it would cost and the savings if every vehicle in Australia went Electric, I was actually surprized at the savings :)
in 10 years there would be a saving of AUs of 355 billion dollars from not using fuel. :thumb

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy » 03 Jul 2018, 09:37

Some of the shorters will get burned.

Earnings and cash flow positive are good!

Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by DonDeeHippy » 03 Jul 2018, 09:20

yeah I posted that in ozpol, funny enough lee and long week and Co didn't reply
Just reading and Tesla have realed their production and sales for the 2nd qurter and its pretty impresive
https://insideevs.com/tesla-q2-production-model-3/
Tesla Q2 2018 Vehicle Production and Deliveries
PALO ALTO, Calif., July 02, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — In the last seven days of Q2, Tesla produced 5,031 Model 3 and 1,913 Model S and X vehicles.
Q2 production totaled 53,339 vehicles, a 55% increase from Q1, making it the most productive quarter in Tesla history by far. For the first time, Model 3 production (28,578) exceeded combined Model S and X production (24,761), and we produced almost three times the amount of Model 3s than we did in Q1. Our Model 3 weekly production rate also more than doubled during the quarter, and we did so without compromising quality.
GA4, our new General Assembly line for Model 3, was responsible for roughly 20% of Model 3s produced last week, with quality from that line being as good as our regular GA3 line. We expect that GA3 alone can reach a production rate of 5,000 Model 3s per week soon, but GA4 helped to get us there faster and will also help to exceed that rate.
Tesla expects to increase production to 6,000 Model 3s per week by late next month. We also reaffirm our guidance for positive GAAP net income and cash flow in Q3 and Q4, despite negative pressures from a weaker USD and likely higher tariffs for vehicles imported into China as well as components procured from China.
Q2 deliveries totaled 40,740 vehicles, of which 18,440 were Model 3, 10,930 were Model S, and 11,370 were Model X. Model S and X deliveries are in line with our guidance provided on May 3. As we previously noted, we are in the process of changing the quarterly production pattern of those vehicles for the various worldwide regions to ensure a more linear flow of deliveries through the quarter. Both orders and deliveries for Model S and X were higher in Q2 than a year ago. Our overall target for 100,000 Model S and Model X deliveries in 2018 is unchanged.
11,166 Model 3 vehicles and 3,892 Model S and X vehicles were in transit to customers at the end of Q2, and will be delivered in early Q3. The high number of customer vehicles in transit for Model 3 was primarily due to a significant increase in production towards the end of the quarter.
The remaining net Model 3 reservations count at the end of Q2 still stood at roughly 420,000 even though we have now delivered 28,386 Model 3 vehicles to date. When we start to provide customers an opportunity to see and test drive the car at their local store, we expect that our orders will grow faster than our production rate. Model 3 Dual Motor All Wheel Drive and Model 3 Dual Motor All Wheel Drive Performance cars will also be available in our stores shortly.

basically they tripled Model 3 production from first quarter.
Now making more 3's than the other 2 models.
Another side note they still have 420,00 pre orders
The shorters have struck again and have made it sound like Tesla wants $2500 more deposit for the model3 pre orders.
They have always asked for $2500 deposit about 3 weeks before delivery, because most r custom orders.
Its worked and Tesla stocks have fallen, but the real news will get out and they will rise again.
:thumb

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