by mothra » 29 Jan 2018, 07:27
pinkeye wrote:mothra wrote:Aussie wrote:Have i made you feel bad, Aussie, by rejecting yuor assertion that you surmised all of my considered thought in one single sentence?
I thought it was you trying to make me feel bad. An attempt to make yourself superior.
I apologise if i hurt your feelings in effectively countering that.
Oh the dripping, reeking sarcasm and self applause!
You have seriously cut me to the quick with your level of cleverness.
Have i? You're a bit of a soft target then. I haven't actually tried very hard. I've contented myself with holding up mirrors.
All in self defence, of course.
Oh dear oh dear. I haven't looked at this topic before.
I make no apologies for that, but I am sorry I haven't been here to support you Mothra.
Umm I've read a few up and down from here and I am sad that there is this conflict from Aussie and JS about this. Mind you I am not surprised.
I've tried to engage with the fellas on this topic earlier in the piece, Mothra. 'Dirt on Burke' for one. It really brings home how far apart we all seem to be in understanding the actual issues.
Aussie ,or JS was it? (does it matter/?) expressed empathy, they claim.
But as you say, went on to show how insular they are in their male view. Women have had to look at their males carefully over the centuries,to gauge their mood, their degree of drunkeness, and the relative threat thereby presented, lest they be beaten or otherwise punished. Um.. sadly this circumstances still exists today. Men (some men) think that it's their right. .
mothra wrote:Aussie wrote:I'm out of my depth here, but I will say this. Mothra, not every woman/female has had the terrible experiences you have (well, I acknowledge what I know of another person) and that experience, and no surprise, has been part of shaping the views you have.
I reckon you need to factor that in. Not every smart arse male (me included) is an arsehole hell bent on denigrating you or dismissive of your views.
And there it is ... the "bitter" card .. deployed even after i mocked it's possible application
I'm only uppity because i'm what, damaged goods?
Clearly you are unaware of the millions of women who are taking to streets right now? My beliefs and opinions are not informed by what i have personally experoienced alone. How fucking patronising. What i have to say is based on everything i have observed, every girls or woman, be they a client of a friend sharing their experiences with me, by watching my own daughter become a woman and having to explain to her why some fuckwits thought it was okay to talk loudly to each other about her breasts, to name but one example.
And we get what when we speak out? COmments about our hormones and our "damage"
We can't actually have a point, could we? Nah, that would mean you have to fucking think about it.
And, while i'm fucking at it, if you are so fucking concerned with my "damage", then you are particularly insensitive.
A simple "this means something to me too" would have meant the world ... from any single one of you.
Pink, i said it on page one .... they don't understand. And i don't mean to invalidate these guys, i think they are good guys, but they just don't get it.
They've spent pages and pages diminishing me to hormonal, hysterical, damaged, and my personal favourite, that i'm "not doing the cause any favours" ... as though their tacit consent is bought through appeasement and upon some gratuity of theirs, as opposed to being substantial in it's right. I ask you? How can my bad behaviour make someone change thier mind? It seems their mind wasn't all the way made up, yes? No amount of Islamic terrorists or abusive Aboriginals lead me to question my ethics ... yet we women ... well, that's something else. We will get men on our side if we don't aggravate them. I could write a thesis on that ... but Miranda wouldn't approve of it.
And again i ask, where is the sensitivity to any of the factors they ascribe me anyway? The empathy? There is none. Not even a little bit. Yet i'm told i must have missed it. As with the assessment of my OP being too verbose and not actually saying anything, requests for examples of what is meant by these things have fallen flat.
They've absolutely no idea. And sadly, as much as they think think they do and as very much as they want to, they simply cannot relate. And, i say again, these are good guys. I'm sure, despite their consistent application of gender specific ad hominems, they honestly mean well.
I told them to fuck themselves. What have i copped in return? And they question
my rationality?
I'm even told that referring to myself as too clever to be manipulated means i'm putting on airs! By the very person who tells me they could have said everything i've said much better in the first place!
It honestly beggars belief.
Yet, these men mean well. They are simply unaware of how they hurt us. But sadly, they do';t seem to want to understand.
No hard feelings on my part ... i get it. I see it all the time. I see a vast number of men that have pushed through it though. This encourages me tremendously.
[quote="pinkeye"][quote="mothra"][quote="Aussie"][quote]Have i made you feel bad, Aussie, by rejecting yuor assertion that you surmised all of my considered thought in one single sentence?
I thought it was you trying to make me feel bad. An attempt to make yourself superior.
I apologise if i hurt your feelings in effectively countering that.[/quote]
Oh the dripping, reeking sarcasm and self applause!
You have seriously cut me to the quick with your level of cleverness.
:beer[/quote]
Have i? You're a bit of a soft target then. I haven't actually tried very hard. I've contented myself with holding up mirrors.
All in self defence, of course.[/quote]
Oh dear oh dear. I haven't looked at this topic before.
I make no apologies for that, but I am sorry I haven't been here to support you Mothra.
Umm I've read a few up and down from here and I am sad that there is this conflict from Aussie and JS about this. Mind you I am not surprised. :sad
I've tried to engage with the fellas on this topic earlier in the piece, Mothra. 'Dirt on Burke' for one. It really brings home how far apart we all seem to be in understanding the actual issues.
Aussie ,or JS was it? (does it matter/?) expressed empathy, they claim. :bgrin :bgrin :purple But as you say, went on to show how insular they are in their male view. Women have had to look at their males carefully over the centuries,to gauge their mood, their degree of drunkeness, and the relative threat thereby presented, lest they be beaten or otherwise punished. Um.. sadly this circumstances still exists today. Men (some men) think that it's their right. .
[quote="mothra"][quote="Aussie"]I'm out of my depth here, but I will say this. Mothra, not every woman/female has had the terrible experiences you have (well, I acknowledge what I know of another person) and that experience, and no surprise, has been part of shaping the views you have.
I reckon you need to factor that in. Not every smart arse male (me included) is an arsehole hell bent on denigrating you or dismissive of your views.
:beer[/quote]
And there it is ... the "bitter" card .. deployed even after i mocked it's possible application
I'm only uppity because i'm what, damaged goods?
Clearly you are unaware of the millions of women who are taking to streets right now? My beliefs and opinions are not informed by what i have personally experoienced alone. How fucking patronising. What i have to say is based on everything i have observed, every girls or woman, be they a client of a friend sharing their experiences with me, by watching my own daughter become a woman and having to explain to her why some fuckwits thought it was okay to talk loudly to each other about her breasts, to name but one example.
And we get what when we speak out? COmments about our hormones and our "damage"
We can't actually have a point, could we? Nah, that would mean you have to fucking think about it.
And, while i'm fucking at it, if you are so fucking concerned with my "damage", then you are particularly insensitive.
A simple "this means something to me too" would have meant the world ... from any single one of you.[/quote][/quote]
Pink, i said it on page one .... they don't understand. And i don't mean to invalidate these guys, i think they are good guys, but they just don't get it.
They've spent pages and pages diminishing me to hormonal, hysterical, damaged, and my personal favourite, that i'm "not doing the cause any favours" ... as though their tacit consent is bought through appeasement and upon some gratuity of theirs, as opposed to being substantial in it's right. I ask you? How can my bad behaviour make someone change thier mind? It seems their mind wasn't all the way made up, yes? No amount of Islamic terrorists or abusive Aboriginals lead me to question my ethics ... yet we women ... well, that's something else. We will get men on our side if we don't aggravate them. I could write a thesis on that ... but Miranda wouldn't approve of it.
And again i ask, where is the sensitivity to any of the factors they ascribe me anyway? The empathy? There is none. Not even a little bit. Yet i'm told i must have missed it. As with the assessment of my OP being too verbose and not actually saying anything, requests for examples of what is meant by these things have fallen flat.
They've absolutely no idea. And sadly, as much as they think think they do and as very much as they want to, they simply cannot relate. And, i say again, these are good guys. I'm sure, despite their consistent application of gender specific ad hominems, they honestly mean well.
I told them to fuck themselves. What have i copped in return? And they question [i]my[/i] rationality?
I'm even told that referring to myself as too clever to be manipulated means i'm putting on airs! By the very person who tells me they could have said everything i've said much better in the first place!
It honestly beggars belief.
Yet, these men mean well. They are simply unaware of how they hurt us. But sadly, they do';t seem to want to understand.
No hard feelings on my part ... i get it. I see it all the time. I see a vast number of men that have pushed through it though. This encourages me tremendously.
