The biggest myth in Australian history

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Expand view Topic review: The biggest myth in Australian history

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 18 Jul 2018, 02:12

perhaps

IF you believe what you wrote.

I ask you if you believe this essential truth ….

Yes, we committed atrocities against the indigenous peoples. Yes, we treated them maliciously. Yes we are responsible for their plight.

No ones pretending anything, pinkeye.



………………… this truth as you have elucidated in your own words (above) has any relevance whatever to the subject.?

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 16 Jul 2018, 23:14

pinkeye wrote:sounds like pretentious crap to me


No i think that you were caught quite off guard by my comments.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 16 Jul 2018, 23:01

sounds like pretentious crap to me

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 16 Jul 2018, 18:16

pinkeye wrote:yes its all BS really.

There is NO argument, in that the people exist, despite all, and for some midget-minds to want to argue about the minutiae, just proves the point.

They want to continue to maintain the status quo... but its time we grew up, and stopped being afraid and guilt-ridden , for the actions of the past.

Much better to recognise what is.

These people are. Pretend all the BS you want, but realise you are in the WRONG.


Yes, we committed atrocities against the indigenous peoples. Yes, we treated them maliciously. Yes we are responsible for their plight.

No ones pretending anything, pinkeye.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Sprintcyclist » 16 Jul 2018, 16:01

hogwash - the biggest myth is that there was anyone here before us beautiful white people.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 15 Jul 2018, 23:49

yes its all BS really.

There is NO argument, in that the people exist, despite all, and for some midget-minds to want to argue about the minutiae, just proves the point.

They want to continue to maintain the status quo... but its time we grew up, and stopped being afraid and guilt-ridden , for the actions of the past.

Much better to recognise what is.

These people are. Pretend all the BS you want, but realise you are in the WRONG.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 23:13

Kunning wrote:
Auggie wrote:
pinkeye wrote:What I mean is that our first people are basically unique in the world.

An entire continent , which saw virtually NO foreign incursion for tens of thousands of years, with a viable society that has existed in isolation for that length of time. Perhaps in far northern climes, exist other peoples who retain a unique identity.
Archaeology has shown many others arrived on these shores, but that was long ago , and these explorers failed to flourish. No surprise, given they were from the Northern hemisphere. They couldn't achieve critical mass.

A continent which is mostly arid, still had people in the toughest places to live.

There is no where else in the world that have such incredible people.

Which means ..? we should honour them.... not seek to exterminate this most ancient lore.


I totally agree with the last point. We should honour them. But, we shouldn't do it by trying to make their culture something it was not just to make ourselves feel better. Complexity doesn't mean superiority; it means that it's different.


Inferior culture, innit.


You’re conflating simplicity with inferiority.

That what the white supremecists do.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Kunning » 14 Jul 2018, 19:21

Auggie wrote:
pinkeye wrote:What I mean is that our first people are basically unique in the world.

An entire continent , which saw virtually NO foreign incursion for tens of thousands of years, with a viable society that has existed in isolation for that length of time. Perhaps in far northern climes, exist other peoples who retain a unique identity.
Archaeology has shown many others arrived on these shores, but that was long ago , and these explorers failed to flourish. No surprise, given they were from the Northern hemisphere. They couldn't achieve critical mass.

A continent which is mostly arid, still had people in the toughest places to live.

There is no where else in the world that have such incredible people.

Which means ..? we should honour them.... not seek to exterminate this most ancient lore.


I totally agree with the last point. We should honour them. But, we shouldn't do it by trying to make their culture something it was not just to make ourselves feel better. Complexity doesn't mean superiority; it means that it's different.


Inferior culture, innit.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Kunning » 14 Jul 2018, 19:15

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:interesting. i was unaware of their farming prowess, or even that they lived in villages. I always thought they were constantly on the move


They only moved about where it was sensible to move about. But it suits our purposes to present them as beneath us as we can.

It's disgusting.



I'm glad someone is trying to set the record straight


Nonsense. These people are racists. They won't even let decent white people walk on a silly rock.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 12 Jul 2018, 18:31

HBS Guy wrote:Laplanders live in primitive ways.


You used the word 'primitive', not me.

Simple doesn't mean inferior. Complexity doesn't mean superior.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 12 Jul 2018, 18:30

pinkeye wrote:What I mean is that our first people are basically unique in the world.

An entire continent , which saw virtually NO foreign incursion for tens of thousands of years, with a viable society that has existed in isolation for that length of time. Perhaps in far northern climes, exist other peoples who retain a unique identity.
Archaeology has shown many others arrived on these shores, but that was long ago , and these explorers failed to flourish. No surprise, given they were from the Northern hemisphere. They couldn't achieve critical mass.

A continent which is mostly arid, still had people in the toughest places to live.

There is no where else in the world that have such incredible people.

Which means ..? we should honour them.... not seek to exterminate this most ancient lore.


I totally agree with the last point. We should honour them. But, we shouldn't do it by trying to make their culture something it was not just to make ourselves feel better. Complexity doesn't mean superiority; it means that it's different.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Miranda » 12 Jul 2018, 11:44

HBS Guy wrote:Laplanders live in primitive ways.


As did the Iñupiat until recent times. And, there are still tribes in South America where there has been little western contact, if any!

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by HBS Guy » 12 Jul 2018, 08:57

Laplanders live in primitive ways.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 12 Jul 2018, 00:54

What I mean is that our first people are basically unique in the world.

An entire continent , which saw virtually NO foreign incursion for tens of thousands of years, with a viable society that has existed in isolation for that length of time. Perhaps in far northern climes, exist other peoples who retain a unique identity.
Archaeology has shown many others arrived on these shores, but that was long ago , and these explorers failed to flourish. No surprise, given they were from the Northern hemisphere. They couldn't achieve critical mass.

A continent which is mostly arid, still had people in the toughest places to live.

There is no where else in the world that have such incredible people.

Which means ..? we should honour them.... not seek to exterminate this most ancient lore.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 11 Jul 2018, 18:43

mothra wrote:
Squire wrote:
The British not only committed crimes against Australian Aboriginals, they compounded the crimes by publishing lies as 'history'.


Indeed. A crime that is continued by modern day Australians who refuse to even consider that there was some degree of civilisation here before we invaded.

Just refuse to even consider it.


So, is stating a fact now equivalent to committing genocide? Or is it 5% genocide?

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by mothra » 11 Jul 2018, 13:53

Squire wrote:
The British not only committed crimes against Australian Aboriginals, they compounded the crimes by publishing lies as 'history'.


Indeed. A crime that is continued by modern day Australians who refuse to even consider that there was some degree of civilisation here before we invaded.

Just refuse to even consider it.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Squire » 11 Jul 2018, 13:00

The British created revisionist history which was based on lies to protect the interests of the British.

It's interesting that the current Myanmar Rohingya crisis is rooted in British historical mass movement of Rohingya into what was then Burma for their own commercial interests. Probably because the Rohingya were more obeisant to the British and worked without complaint for zero wages.

The British not only committed crimes against Australian Aboriginals, they compounded the crimes by publishing lies as 'history'.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 10 Jul 2018, 23:21

to which I can only reply:

Auggie says

That's part of the reason why the Indigenous Peoples were able to live continuously the same way for so long; there was no incentive to innovate and adapt. In Europe and other parts of the world, conflict and wars between different nations and empires created the impetus to adapt and to evolve (socially and culturally) in order to survive. Where there exists no competition, then change does not take place.


Good grief Auggie.
What I have underlined. above. simply say " what I said"..... or is a totally irrelevant statement has no bearing on this discussion.

Talking wandering off the beaten track. :roll

Surviving the Australian outback with basically their own intelligence as their main hope, they DID survive.!

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 10 Jul 2018, 20:24

pinkeye wrote:oh yeah.. I meant to add that westerners... the Europeans and the other nations which descended on terra australis were from structurally different societies.


Vastly different. Remember , the aboriginal peoples of this Island continent had lived here, for ? 60,000 years..? They didn't face any real incursion from other cultures.. they traded, inter-married, had conflicts, but essentially, were left alone for what 50,000 years? before other travellers made it here.


They had TIME... uninterrupted time. Something NO western civilisation can compare to.
The sheer magnitude of the warfare conflict and death which had afflicted the West since whenever, didn't allow this type of civilisation to take root and grow, in the West.. Or the East, for that matter.
Add to that the strictures of the environment..?
And no.. included in those strictures was no hard-hoofed animals of burden.
They used dogs, where they could. You know?

Their traditions are much deeper than our own.

Because...??
of the length of time they developed, more or less untouched over millennia.


Until the new people arrived.


So, basically?? ..well I'm sure you get the message.


That's part of the reason why the Indigenous Peoples were able to live continuously the same way for so long; there was no incentive to innovate and adapt. In Europe and other parts of the world, conflict and wars between different nations and empires created the impetus to adapt and to evolve (socially and culturally) in order to survive. Where there exists no competition, then change does not take place.

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Auggie » 10 Jul 2018, 19:01

pinkeye wrote:Complex civilisations include (among other things): writing; division of labour; large urban settlement; surplus of agricultural; monumental architecture; political hierarchy; and domination over the natural environment.

- says Auggie.


I refer to several sources which can confirm my definition of the word 'civilization'.

1) Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization

A civilization or civilisation (see English spelling differences) is any complex society characterized by urban development, social stratification imposed by a cultural elite, symbolic systems of communication (for example, writing systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]


2) https://www.ancient.eu/civilization/

ATTRIBUTES OF A CIVILIZATION

An influential scholar named Gordon Childe identified a list of ten attributes that distinguish a civilization from other kind of societies; his list was reviewed and rewritten many times. What follows is the version of Charles Redman, an American archaeologist:

Primary characteristics

1. Urban settlements
2. Full-time specialists not involved in agricultural activities
3. Concentration of surplus production
4. Class structure
5. State-level organization (government)

Secondary characteristics

6. Monumental public building
7. Extensive trading networks
8. Standardized monumental artwork
9. Writing
10. Development of exact sciences


Shall I go on?

pinkeye wrote:Their society didn't have the complexity of other civilisations.

- says Auggie


No, according to the definition of civilization as per above. For e.g. the Indigenous Peoples didn't have writing, did they? They didn't have large urban settlements.

pinkeye wrote:The second? clear arrogance at the core of which is the belief of the supremacy of western philosophy and tradition.
To the exclusion of all other.?


The Chinese civilization is a complex one. The Indian one, also Japanese; also Mesopotamia, and Egypt.

Does that count as the supremacy of Western philosophy?

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Jul 2018, 16:06

Of course, Mesopotamia had beer. Makes all the difference! Seriously!

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Miranda » 10 Jul 2018, 15:08

pinkeye wrote:Complex civilisations include (among other things): writing; division of labour; large urban settlement; surplus of agricultural; monumental architecture; political hierarchy; and domination over the natural environment.

- says Auggie.


Their society didn't have the complexity of other civilisations.

- says Auggie



I have a problem with both of these statements..
The first ? because this is clearly not a universal definition.
Well perhaps you'd prove different?

The second? clear arrogance at the core of which is the belief of the supremacy of western philosophy and tradition.
To the exclusion of all other.?


Mesopotamia is an example of civilization. If I compare the various cultures of our first people with Mesopotamia, I find only elements of what defines a civilization, but not ALL that takes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by Bongalong » 10 Jul 2018, 12:48

Is mothra sure she isn't wrong? :oops

Re: The biggest myth in Australian history

Post by pinkeye » 10 Jul 2018, 01:38

oh yeah.. I meant to add that westerners... the Europeans and the other nations which descended on terra australis were from structurally different societies.


Vastly different. Remember , the aboriginal peoples of this Island continent had lived here, for ? 60,000 years..? They didn't face any real incursion from other cultures.. they traded, inter-married, had conflicts, but essentially, were left alone for what 50,000 years? before other travellers made it here.


They had TIME... uninterrupted time. Something NO western civilisation can compare to.
The sheer magnitude of the warfare conflict and death which had afflicted the West since whenever, didn't allow this type of civilisation to take root and grow, in the West.. Or the East, for that matter.
Add to that the strictures of the environment..?
And no.. included in those strictures was no hard-hoofed animals of burden.
They used dogs, where they could. You know?

Their traditions are much deeper than our own.

Because...??
of the length of time they developed, more or less untouched over millennia.


Until the new people arrived.


So, basically?? ..well I'm sure you get the message.

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