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Topic review

Expand view Topic review: Gardening

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 15 Aug 2018, 01:45

I have had a thought about the two cider apples trees I bought but don’t want: I will plant them somewhere, keep them small by pruning—use the roots to graft wood from a tree I do want to the roots of the ones I don’t!

One could be winesaps, only available in dwarf—graft a decent branch to the rootstock—plenty delicious apples that will store really well!

if I don’t, just dig them up throw them away!

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 15 Aug 2018, 01:24

OK, I am going to plant all the cherry trees in row 4. That way don’t need to get no ripping done this year. Or next year—will be maintenance (pruning, spraying) and planting understory plants like currants, gooseberries, pepperberries, planting more herbs and beneficial plants.

Then I will decide where to put the perry pears—in the front garden will do, right by the road: perry pears are inedible even to pigs, hard, woody etc which makes them easier to mill, apparently. But anybody pinching one of them to eat will only ever pinch one :bgrin

Spending a lot of time in the conservatory I reckon between the fruit trees and the house a lot of flowers some decorative trees like crepe myrtle, a beech or silver birch etc, vege/herb patch near the kitchen, maybe partere with stepover apple trees (extremely dwarfing trees) separating different beds, a pond with fountain etc.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 13 Aug 2018, 09:35

Not a moat, a long skinny pond more like.

Re: Gardening

Post by Cherie » 12 Aug 2018, 23:30

I love the idea about the moat around a tree- and I will be doing that for all my trees- my dad used to irrigate his actual BIG vegie garden and he used the channel system that they used in market gardens by making a big channel at one end and allowing the water to run in at will into furrows - he would block and control the flow of water that way- it would run down slow and soak right in- he had a beautiful veggie garden using the channel system- we lived near a river-it was great life there-

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 12 Aug 2018, 14:40

Came across a note I had made: run greywater into the swales. Good idea! Sedges around the outside will remove impurities, apparently phosporous can build up, shallow swales will fill and overflow, rinsing excess phosporous out the whole system.

I will have sink, washing machine (after first rinse, maybe) bath & shower, handbasin etc all running out to the garden.

Cherries don’t like dry, yet if irrigated grow like topsy! Delicate balance—and I am not there to do the balancing!

Re: Gardening

Post by Cherie » 10 Aug 2018, 19:13

well I am really going to give it a go- getting an avo here will be the tricky bit especially A Hass- but as for olive trees I have seen one man here with a whole grove- he is dead now but they lived on for years until the new owner moved in and bulldozed the lot :mad want to plant peaches/ a good apricot lemons and other fruits as well-

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 17:50

I think you will find avocados prefer sandy soil. Do prepare like I told you, get organic matter in there, cowshit, carrot tops, spoiled hay whatever is to hand and cheap.

No idea about olives tho.

Re: Gardening

Post by Cherie » 10 Aug 2018, 17:26

I am jealous you have any kind of markets- anyway I want to have some kind success with fruit trees- esp avo and olive ( love)


But I dont know how to tame battle my very bad soils

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 15:55

Better than that—the trolley I take to the Central and Farmers Markets!

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 10 Aug 2018, 14:57

I like the plastic water bottle idea. Won't have anything to trip over.

Trees shaped like this can fruit more. The fruit is exposed to more sun.
Also, the fruit is more accessible, so much better. That will make a huge difference when you have kilos of fruit.
Can put the fruit box on a small table beside you as you pick, if you are standing on the ground.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 14:08

Will need to prune or it grows to its full 14–15', close to 5 metres :OMG :OMG :OMG Apart from picking fruit there is pruning, spraying (neem oil mainly)

Bending down branches is good, use tree ties, tie with string to a ring in a post.

I saw a really good idea, will work with any fruit tree (any tree, really.)

Collect some plastic water bottles (with tops) and get some thick, plastic coated wire. Make a loose hook at one end of the wire and tie the other around the neck of the bottle. Hang bottle from the branch, add water until it bends the branch, put top on bottle. Thick, plastic coated wire won’t harm the branch. Do this in stages to avoid snapping off the branch. Must have closed the page containing that hint but will find it again.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 14:00

You made a swale!

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 10 Aug 2018, 13:00

Harvesting without using ladders will a great benefit.
Putting up a ladder on uneven ground is not easy, even 3 legged ladders. Much better to be standing on the ground.
Going to weight or tie down branches to the ground ?

I noticed after a rain the banked path was sodden and holding water. On other normal sloped areas the soil was very firm.
So it made a big difference.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 11:56


So swales help retain floodwater, get floodwater to drop sediment. Plant reeds and sedge and you remove impurities from the water on its way to a dam etc.

I will use them but since I will be making mounds they will be created by default, kinda.

Re the cherries I think I am on to a way of pruning them that they can be harvested without needing ladders. Absolutely no feeding of cherry trees—they will grow huge!

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 10 Aug 2018, 10:57

HBS Guy wrote:Will, “mini moats” at the uphill side of a row of trees.

Makes good sense.

The path in the Butterfly Forest is banked into the slope, so sort of has a water retention shape.
Only on a normal backyard block, so can't do a lot more really.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 02:00

Well, “mini moats” at the uphill side of a row of trees.

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 10 Aug 2018, 00:10

I see, so sort of 'mini moats' around the trees ?

Yes, in nature the ground is uneven, has hollows and peaks.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 09 Aug 2018, 17:14

Drainage plus harvesting rainwater. Will get it done a bit piecemeal. The mounds into which the trees and then the understory will be planted will do the drainage.

Also in the swales—lots organic matter incl some hardwood chips, prunings from the trees (apart from any diseased prunings, of course—that feed the fungi and feeder roots of the trees. Chooks will love scratching in it—and add their own fertiliser. Eventually—no need to irrigate!

Do a Google on swales, tons info, could be good for your butterfly forest.

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 09 Aug 2018, 08:24

Why the swales between rows of trees?

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 09 Aug 2018, 00:13

Swales I reckon 600mm wide, 450mm deep between rows 1&2, 2&3, 3&4 and 4&5 with dug up clay dumped on rows 1, 2, 3, 4. Hmm will need another swale on the house side of row 5.

But the dup up clay + weeds dug up will go over the top of all the compost and sheepshit and blood & bone etc I spread out and dug in.

So no swales. Saves me some $$$, always welcome.

Will make mounds where trees will go with some more coarse sand, more compost, biochar and bought good loam. When I add understory plants the mounds will look more like berms. Can dig swales at my leisure once I am living there, buy a rotary hoe, run it 3-4 times shovelling the clay to widen the mounds a bit.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 08 Aug 2018, 23:58

Yeah, basics are simple enough:

1. Scrupulous attention to cleaning and sanitation (and rinsing sanitiser if need be)

2. For malty beers use more malt, less sugar or dried corn syrup (DCS) (don’t need DCS if you are using plenty malt.

3. Good aeration and pitching 12g sachets of good yeast, kept in fridge until needed. Can pitch warm, ferment at 18°C maximum.

4. Let beer ferment out, make sure to take OG & FG, FG OG/4 (so a 50GU beer (OG 1050) should ferment to about 1012–13)

4. Let beer settle, bottle without overpriming.

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 08 Aug 2018, 23:37

It'll take me a while to understand that all.
I get the big picture.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 08 Aug 2018, 17:18


Last few years of brewing I used liquid yeasts: make a starter, pitch, rack beer off, pitch another, stronger and darker, wort on the yeast cake and then do that once more. $18 for a sachet yeast, 4 beers out of it, $4.50 a batch which is fine. Where you might be able to find a dozen distinct dry yeasts just Wyeastlabs (Wyeast) has like 3 dozen liquid yeasts and White Labs extends that range a bit.

One weird yeast: WY Saison yeast. Seasonal yeast for a seasonal beer style. Ferments slowly. I pitched it into an unmalted wheat (spelt) heavy wort, racked after 1 week (around GU 1012 into a “cube” that I warm conditioned for a month (in my study, heated by an oilfilled heater, ceiling insulated, heavy curtains drawn over window) and racked to a bottling bucket (a spare clean fermenter) with gravity now 1002—bone dry, a diabetic could drink it!) primed and bottled.

Weird—bone dry yet a HUGE mouthfeel from the proteins in all that spelt!

Just trying to show making beer is a fascinating craft with level after level of fascination.

Re: Gardening

Post by Sprintcyclist » 08 Aug 2018, 16:24

Phew, I am often slow to learn. Then the pieces all fall together.

The nottingham yeast looks good.

.............. In Lallemand’s Standard Conditions Wort at 20°C (68°F) Nottingham yeast exhibits:
Vigorous fermentation that can be completed in 4 days
High Attenuation and High Flocculation
Neutral to slightly fruity and estery flavor and aroma
The optimal temperature range for Nottingham yeast when producing traditional styles is 10°C
(50°F)* to 22°C (72°F)

*at lower temperature it is possible to ferment lager-style beers in all-malt wort within 9 days
Fermentation rate, fermentation time and degree of attenuation are dependent on inoculation density, yeast handling, fermentation temperature and nutritional quality of the wort. ..............

I read a few people who said ........ 'nottingham yeast is a beast and works very vigorously' ...........
Probably like me, they ran it at 20+ degrees. Set this one at 16 degrees and it should be very nice.

Re: Gardening

Post by HBS Guy » 08 Aug 2018, 16:17

OK, except I am not a fan of dried corn syrup but try it. I am a fan of more malt, just need 20-25% dextrose with dried malt extract or it gets gluggy.