Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

[Texan]

In the same way that vaccinated people can still spread the virus to others who are at risk?

The vaccine simply changes your body's ability to produce a protein that lessens the symptoms of covid. It doesn't provide your body with antibodies. That's why all of these vaccinated people are still getting sick and spreading the virus. The vaccine helps keep from having SEVERE covid symptoms. That's it's only benefit.

My antibodies are much more likely to stop the newly exposed virus before any symptoms can appear.

"MIL?"

MIL is Mother In Law. She turns 90 next week. We gave her the vaccine(she has dementia) and my parents got it also.

 

[chris155au]

The vaccine simply changes your body's ability to produce a protein that lessens the symptoms of covid. It doesn't provide your body with antibodies. That's why all of these vaccinated people are still getting sick and spreading the virus. The vaccine helps keep from having SEVERE covid symptoms. That's it's only benefit.

My antibodies are much more likely to stop the newly exposed virus before any symptoms can appear.

Which would make it different to vaccines for other diseases, right?

 

[Texan]

Which would make it different to vaccines for other diseases, right?

Yes. This type of vaccine is pretty new. I'm not sure if this is the first of this type, but they are very new. The old fashioned dead virus in the vaccine method is harder to make and often takes years and even then there are no guarantees of success. It took Salk 11 years to make a Polio vaccine. How long have they been working on an AIDS vaccine?

 

[Aussie]

"MIL?"

Mother-in-Law

 

[chris155au]

Yes. This type of vaccine is pretty new. I'm not sure if this is the first of this type, but they are very new. The old fashioned dead virus in the vaccine method is harder to make and often takes years and even then there are no guarantees of success. It took Salk 11 years to make a Polio vaccine. How long have they been working on an AIDS vaccine?

So there are no antibodies whatsoever in any of the COVID vaccines? I'm FLABBERGASTED!

 

[Texan]

So there are no antibodies whatsoever in any of the COVID vaccines? I'm FLABBERGASTED!

That's my understanding. I'm not a medical person.

 

[johnsmith]

Before I got covid, I avoided my parents and did whatever it took to keep my MIL from getting sick. I coordinated with my extended family to protect my MIL by passing her off to a healthy family and then caring for her when members of my extended family would get sick. My family did not pass covid on to a single person during our quarantine and we have provided meals to friends who later quarantined with covid. This was all before the vaccine and we did just fine. If someone is not as careful as I was, then that's on them. I'm not ready to give up my freedom for someone else's fear.

no one saying you'll pass on deliberately .... it's only a matter of time before you come into contact with someone who, unbeknownst to you, has an immune deficiency.

 

[johnsmith]

In the same way that vaccinated people can still spread the virus to others who are at risk?

yes

Most people still insure their homes against fire despite most of them never having a fire throughout their lives ..... A vaccine is just another layer of insurance

 

[chris155au]

I've said this at the end of last year. We will be forced to be vaccinated through shaming, asserting unsupported dumb assumptions("..those who don't comply, are putting us all at risk."), and fear-mongering half-truths and disinformation.

So we have graduated from those who don't wear a mask are putting those who do wear a mask at risk(of course this begs the obvious question, isn't wearing a mask supposed to protect you?), to saying that those who are NOT vaccinated, are putting those who ARE vaccinated at risk. That is insane. What's next, vilifying and demonizing those who refuse to download locator apps, swipe QR codes, or be tested for Covid-19, as also a risk to the public safety? We are now turning on each other. Just like in Nazi Germany. Those who comply against those who don't.

Does anyone remember the pre-Covid-19 days? Remember when the economy and jobs were on the rise? Remember, when you voluntarily stayed at home when you had the flu?

One year of COVID-19: Aussie jobs, business and the economy

A timeline of significant COVID-19 events and statistical and economic insights over the last year.

www.abs.gov.au

Remember when you could sunbake on the beaches, have large weddings and funerals, go to sports venues, etc.? Who would have thought that it would take only 3,280 active quarantined cases(34,130 total cases - 29,926 recoveries - 923 deaths) throughout all of Australia, to end this freedom for the 99.9% of the population that isn't even infected. Because of 52 already hospitalized and quarantined Queenslanders, over 5M healthy Queenslanders must have a good reason to leave their own homes. And, this doesn't even raise an eyebrow for many.

Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Isn't the concern more that the hospital system could be overwhelmed?

 

[chris155au]

yes

Most people still insure their homes against fire despite most of them never having a fire throughout their lives ..... A vaccine is just another layer of insurance

Yes, but what does having insurance have to do
with people other than the person who has the insurance?

 

[chris155au]

no one saying you'll pass on deliberately .... it's only a matter of time before you come into contact with someone who, unbeknownst to you, has an immune deficiency.

And would that be @Texan's fault, or the immune deficient person who risked being out?

 

[johnsmith]

And would that be @Texan's fault, or the immune deficient person who risked being out?

not at all. It's not about fault, it's about protecting those that are most vulnerable

 

[johnsmith]

Yes, but what does having insurance have to do
with people other than the person who has the insurance?

your house catching fire affects only you and your family, your potential to spread covid affects the wider community.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

A virus is not a living, sentient, self-aware, or thinking organism. It doesn't discern between an organism that is vaccinate, or one that isn't.

So there are no antibodies whatsoever in any of the COVID vaccines? I'm FLABBERGASTED!

There are no viral antibodies in ANY vaccines. The job of all vaccines, is to prompt the body's immune system to produce the specific antibodies to fight the specific virus. The Pfizer vaccine is a Chinese lab created sequenced string of RNA, that is attached to a mRNA vector. When this mRNA enters the nucleus of the cell, it instructs the cells to make the same "spike" protein that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has. When the immune system sees these spike proteins(antigen markers), it will begin its immune response. This also includes making antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

The AstraZeneca vaccine contains a modified group of "Adenoviruses"(flu, MERS, and the common cold). It makes the assumption that everyone already has an immunity to them. It does NOT contain the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus. Viable or not.

COVID-19 vaccines | Vaccine Knowledge

vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk

Some things to know about these new vaccines. They can take up to 2 weeks to be effective. Vaccines do not stop any viruses from infecting you. Go get a blood test, and see just how many viruses you have been infected with in the past. You'd be surprised. Vaccines also may not prevent you from infecting other. But this depend on the many factors affecting the chain of infection(age, immune system, other underlying illnesses, etc.).

Unfortunately, man cannot mimic nature, and all vaccines will have side-effects or some allergic reaction. Why do you think eating sugar and fast foods, can lead to obesity? Our immune system has had millions of years learning how to adapt and fight viral/bacterial pathogens. It is very good at it. In fact it is too good at it, which is why many people die. But, whether you are artificially or naturally vaccinated, the goal is still the same. Immunity, in the form of an early response to these pathogens.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Isn't the concern more that the hospital system could be overwhelmed?

If hospitals ARE/WERE being overwhelmed, then isn't the government's job to sink more emergency resources into them(more staff, equipment, funding, other resources, etc.)? What hospitals in Australian have been overwhelmed(not triage)? Where patients couldn't be admitted or transferred to another hospital or health facility? My understanding is that most deaths occured in aged care, and private care facilities. NOT in hospitals. Most people simply go see their own doctors, and received outpatient treatment only. Some may go to hospital for treatment, but are not admitted.

The only thing that has turned out to be overwhelming, is all the alarmism, fear-mongering, and deliberate disinformation. There are many time more hospitals and health facilities in Australia, than there were people admitted for Covid-19. Currently there are only 247 people that have been admitted to hospitals with Covid-19. It is NOT the viral apocalypse that media has been constantly trying to manufacture.

 

[johnsmith]

What hospitals in Australian have been overwhelmed(not triage)?

You can't argue against lock downs, and then argue that the results of the lock down here prove they weren't needed ya tosser. Many hospital systems around the world were overwhelmed because of covid. My own mother had to wait 3 weeks for emergency surgery in Italy because the local hospital couldn't cope ... she didn't make it. But thats not entirely due to the delay although it played it's part.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

You can't argue against lock downs, and then argue that the results of the lock down here prove they weren't needed ya tosser. Many hospital systems around the world were overwhelmed because of covid. My own mother had to wait 3 weeks for emergency surgery in Italy because the local hospital couldn't cope ... she didn't make it. But thats not entirely due to the delay although it played it's part.

Another straw man. I was speaking specifically about the hospitals in Australian, NOT some hospital somewhere in the world. We don't have any control over what happens in other countries. We don't know or control any of the circumstances in any other countries.

Since masks are basically useless, and always keeping 2 meters apart is impossible, WHAT LOCKDOWN!! What is the direct causal link between a lockdown and this airborne virus? Why has the death and infection rates increased many times over, after the lockdown, than before the lockdowns? Would you like to see that stats? And unless you are God, please don't say, "Well it could have been much worse, without the lockdowns.". This flu pattern is very similar to all the seasonal flu patterns, for the last 60 years. Regardless of anything we do.

 

[johnsmith]

Another straw man. I was speaking specifically about the hospitals in Australian, NOT some hospital somewhere in the world.

and you were using what happened in australia to try and prove your point, all the while ignoring the fact that what happened in Australia happened BECAUSE of our lock downs

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

You can't argue against lock downs, and then argue that the results of the lock down here prove they weren't needed

First you said that I was arguing AGAINST the lockdown, without explaining what I was arguing against(the non-voluntary nature, the facts that show why it is ineffective). So YES! The lockdown is NOT voluntary. FACT! Thousands more people were infected, and 100's more people have died after the lockdown, than the months before the lockdown. Another FACT!

Since you keep making this claim, maybe you can demonstrate the direct causal link between the lockdown, and the rate of deaths and infections? And maybe you can contrast this with the more hosts who are infected and recover, the less the number of hosts in a species that the virus can infect. This is how nature has done it for billions of years, to protect the species.

Isn't the concern more that the hospital system could be overwhelmed?

This is what his question was to me. I simply asked, what were the Australian hospitals that were being overwhelmed? And, what the government could do in case this did happen. I'm I wrong? I always want to be sure that I am separating fact from hype, fear, and fiction. Without facts, there is only speculation and supposition. We could make this same claim for any disease.

and you were using what happened in australia to try and prove your point, all the while ignoring the fact that what happened in Australia happened BECAUSE of our lock downs

What point are you talking about? Was I wrong about what happened in Australia? You were talking about a hospital in Italy. And how it took 3 weeks for your mother to get emergency surgery, because that hospital couldn't cope. Exactly what were you trying to imply about the local hospitals here in Australia? Maybe just what COULD happen? Aren't you just another alarmist fear-monger, jumping on the government's bandwagon?

Again, just to make this crystal. I don't care if people want to infect themselves with a vaccine, download locator apps, receive special ID cards for their compliance, stay 2 meters apart, wear masks, or line up and be tested. This is their choice. And people should have a right to do what makes them feel safe and secure. But I also have a right to make choices that make me feel safe and secure. So, don't shame, arrest, fine, threaten, or force me make the same choices. This lack of choice/freedom can easily lead to Fascism, an Oligarchy, or Authoritarianism.

Just how far will the government go to make sure everyone complies? It's already telling Australians to dob on other Australians, and people don't seem to care.

 

[chris155au]

This is what his question was to me. I simply asked, what were the Australian hospitals that were being overwhelmed?

None, but it could be argued that the reason that none were overwhelmed is because of the strict lockdown measures.

And, what the government could do in case this did happen. I'm I wrong?

Can you rephrase?

I always want to be sure that I am separating fact from hype, fear, and fiction. Without facts, there is only speculation and supposition. We could make this same claim for any disease.

Any disease, or any disease with the same level of transmissibility?