WAR: What is it good for?

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Can anyone post just ONE objective truth that would justify a war between sovereign nations? Or, any sovereign nation killing the citizens of another sovereign nation? Here are two objective truths to justify wars,

Wars create the demand that creates the supply, to create the profits for war profiteers.
In some actual verifiable case of Self-Defense, not in some construed case of Self-Defense. Like WWI(U-boat attacks), and WWII(Pearl Harbor).
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
Invading a country in the name of "Self Defense" is like going into a robbers house and killing them in "Self Defense"
It's retaliation pure and simple....
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Invading a country in the name of "Self Defense" is like going into a robbers house and killing them in "Self Defense"
It's retaliation pure and simple....
When a gang murders multiple members of your family on multiple occasions, and they are planning to murder more members of your family, THEN do you go to his house and kill him in self defense?
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
War is good for hastening technical and medical advances.
That is sad, but true. Absolutely true. I hate to say it this way, but we are all little bit harder to kill through trauma thanks to discoveries made during our recent wars.
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho
Staff member
There was a finding in the war over the Falkland Islands: British troops with severe injuries could be treated and they lived where in Viet Nam they would have died: get wounded in a war in a cold climate not a hot one.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
There was a finding in the war over the Falkland Islands: British troops with severe injuries could be treated and they lived where in Viet Nam they would have died: get wounded in a war in a cold climate not a hot one.
In our recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is what is called the Golden Hour. Keep 'em alive for an hour, we can probably save 'em. Also, combat trauma treatment by line soldiers and medics has vastly improved since Viet Nam days. My son's life was saved by both - the lifesaving medical treatment by fellow Marines, and getting him to a field hospital within the hour. He was lucky. He was carrying the radio, and it was destroyed. Marines had to run 2 miles in full battle gear to report what had happened and to get a med evac started. Tick, tock, tick, tock ...
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
When a gang murders multiple members of your family on multiple occasions, and they are planning to murder more members of your family, THEN do you go to his house and kill him in self defense?
No you go to war with that gang and take them down.....

that can no way be called self defense....that is going on the offense and it's pre meditated.... not saying that it's wrong but it's definitely the wrong word as a policeman you should know that.... if someone went into a gang house and killed the gang because he was scared of being attacked would that be self defense ?
might be justifiable homicide, more likely premeditated murder and retribution...Vigilante would probably be in there as well...



Why should countries be any different... self defense is just that, steps taken while being attacked to stop the attack....And if your worried about attack work on your defense, whether personally or as a country......
Anything else is aggression....no matter how Nobel....
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
No you go to war with that gang and take them down.....

that can no way be called self defense....that is going on the offense and it's pre meditated.... not saying that it's wrong but it's definitely the wrong word as a policeman you should know that.... if someone went into a gang house and killed the gang because he was scared of being attacked would that be self defense ?
might be justifiable homicide, more likely premeditated murder and retribution...Vigilante would probably be in there as well...



Why should countries be any different... self defense is just that, steps taken while being attacked to stop the attack....And if your worried about attack work on your defense, whether personally or as a country......
Anything else is aggression....no matter how Nobel....
Nah, we just don't agree. I have always believed that the our invasion of Afghanistan was, in essence, a defensive action, but it was carried out through offensive tactics.
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
in essence, a defensive action, but it was carried out through offensive tactics.
just like a peaceful demonstration using lethal force.....

A preemptive strike can never be self defense..... defense and offense are not the same words sorry to say....

your original scenario with the gang, tell me if someone went and killed a gang in cold blood because they where fearful of death, would they be excused for self defense ? What would they be charged with ???
 

Squire

Active member
One of the USA's biggest exports is war machines and munitions and the USA acts strongly against competitors in this business because US political leaders have investments in military industries.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
just like a peaceful demonstration using lethal force.....

A preemptive strike can never be self defense..... defense and offense are not the same words sorry to say....

your original scenario with the gang, tell me if someone went and killed a gang in cold blood because they where fearful of death, would they be excused for self defense ? What would they be charged with ???
If the gang had already killed members of their family, and the gang was planning to kill more of their family, killing them would be self defense, and you wouldn't be charged with anything. This is assuming there is no law enforcement, and it's kill or be killed. If you went to the gang's house and killed them, this would be an act of self defense carried out by going on the offense.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Despite all of these medical advances associated with war, most of them would have come about in time anyway. I seriously doubt that anyone is recommending that war is a useful path for creating medical innovations! The only real medical/technical innovations borne out of war, is the development of better and more efficient ways of killing more humans, in the shortest amount of time. Compared with saving the lives of humans!! So, what are these post Korean War advancement in medicine, that were NOT borne out of research or necessity?

Some diseases were CREATED BECAUSE of war. For example, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. This disease was described, recognized, and diagnosis by a Veterans Affairs psychiatrist treating many Vietnam veterans. Of course, this disease has also been present in every war. In the Civil War, it was called “Lost Heart;” in WWI, it was “Shell Shock;” and in in WWII, it was called “Battle Fatigue.”.

So, what is war good for?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Does an attack by a non-state terrorist group give the US the right to use self-defense as understood under international law? YES!! Under what circumstances is the Taliban(and the Afghani government itself) a legitimate target for the US military, under the self-defense doctrine? Unclear!! To what extent is the United States entitled to dictate the terms by which the Taliban should act, before the military action would cease against them and Al Qaeda bases on Afghani soil? Very unclear!!! Does the murdering of innocent men women and children, equate to a measured defense response? Of course not. You don't blow-up a village to kill three terrorists, or burn down an projects(government housing), to kill gang members.

If any member of my family was killed by a gang member/gang, then I would try to destroy the gang, NOT THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD! But I would at least be honest enough to call it what it is, revenge. I would take full responsibility for my actions. I would not spin my actions as self-defense, or refer to innocent deaths as collateral damage. If the gang was planning to take out more members of my family, I would notify the police, and then try to destroy the gang. In both cases, I am aware that my actions are just revenge, and not self-defense. It would have been self-defense if I was in the act of protecting myself and my family at the time of my actions. Not years afterwards.

But we are not talking about defending ones-self against a real threat to life and limb, are we? We are talking about a Nation ignoring all other options, just to kill more citizens than terrorists. We are talking about a nation making impossible demands(a guarantee that no terrorist will ever attack the US, or its interests), as an excuse to keep boots on the ground indefinitely. We are talking about a nation(US) telling another nation(Afghanistan) to turn over its terrorists to them, OR ELSE!! This is ironic, since both al Qaeda and the Taliban were created and financed by the US CIA. Calling the US's actions self-defense, is like dropping 2 atomic bombs over a country trying to surrender, and calling it self-defense. The US is just a dangerous global bully, that actually believes in its own political hype. Unfortunately, our brave military men and women(and their families), don't have a say in the political games played by cowards.

https://www.stripes.com/news/specia...rendered-without-the-atomic-bombings-1.360300
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
war helps weed out the population
Very true. Throughout all of human history, it is estimated that 150M - 1B people people have died directly due to war. This, also has a secondary effect. Birthrates. Keeping men away from women, by increasing the numbers of male deaths during wars, will affect the birthrate numbers. Estimates are around a 20M deficient in births a year, during war periods.

There are only two ways to reduce the population. Physically keep men and women apart(incarcerating more Blacks also works). Or, to make men impotent/sterile. That's it. There are population control committees in most countries and the UN. Their agenda includes, addressing the issues of the sustainability of global resources, and how to control population growth.
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho
Staff member
Civil War freed the slaves! Yes, industrial progress may have done so but maybe not too.
 
Top