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Jail priests who don't report Abuse

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Jail the priests


Personally, I think it's a good call. For to long the church has been a protected species despite them showing time and time again that they don't deserve that protection.


PS. I tried to copy the article on here but the forums software didn't like it, so all I can give you is the link. It didn't even like the link until I changed the name of it
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho
Staff member
Priests in Queensland will now be compelled to break the seal of confession to report child se xual abuse or face three years in jail.

New laws passed through Queensland Parliament will force members of the clergy to report known or suspected cases of abuse to police.

The legislation means religious institutions and their members are no longer able to use the sanctity of confessional as a defence or excuse in child s ex abuse matters.

Police Minister Mark Ryan said the laws would ensure better protection for vulnerable children.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Jail the priests


Personally, I think it's a good call. For to long the church has been a protected species despite them showing time and time again that they don't deserve that protection.


PS. I tried to copy the article on here but the forums software didn't like it, so all I can give you is the link. It didn't even like the link until I changed the name of it
In the U.S. the clergy are considered to be "mandatory reporters" in about half of the states. Should be all of them.

Honestly, I think any adult should be a mandatory reporter under the law, including spouses of the suspect.
 

DreamRyderX

Active member
..

Holy See Upholds Confessional Seal in Response to Australian Royal Commission



Source: The National Catholic Register
September 7, 2020

MELBOURNE, Australia — The Australian bishops have provided the federal government with the Holy See’s observations on 12 recommendations of a 2017 report on child ⓢⓔⓧ abuse in the country's institutions.

In response to a recommendation regarding the seal of confession and absolution, the Holy See reiterated the inviolability of the seal and that absolution cannot be conditioned on future actions in the external forum..........continued
I wonder who will win this in the long run?

The Catholic Church, or the Australian Government.

AFAIK the Australian Constitution, nor any Australian Law that I am aware of, protects an Australian Citizen's Right to exercise a Freedom of Religion, or anything similar to what the US Constitution's First Amendment's Unalienable Rights affirm & protect.

Therefore, the Catholic Clergy in Australia are virtually on their own, if they refuse to comply on religious grounds (the Confessional Seal), except in the eyes of the Holy See, & the eyes of their God.

Again, wherever it's debated worldwide, who will be the winners?


..
 
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johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Remove their tax exemption status until they play ball .... the church will fold faster than you can cry about your gun rights
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho
Staff member
Yup, just say a RC into tax status of churches and affiliated bodies is being set up.

Of course, the Catholic church will say: you can run our schools, hospitals, nursing homes, support to carers yourself. A bluff, I think.
 

DreamRyderX

Active member
Remove their tax exemption status until they play ball .... the church will fold faster than you can cry about your gun rights
Maybe that might the rule of the day here in Australia, where the only Rights the ordinary people have, as posted elsewhere on this forum, the only Rights the ordinary people have are granted to them (temporarily) by a government that can remove them at whim or will.

America, which was settled by people that desired & eventually demanded Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, & the Freedom to enjoy their Individual Liberty, not the Monarchical servitude of Ole Englund. No, Americans have Rights....not a list of wants............Natural & Unalienable Rights, that are affirmed & defended by a Constitution, which restrains/orders the government, the servants of the People, to respect the Rights that the People demand they must.

America, where if the government don't 'play ball' then the government can be removed, or at a last resort, violently overthrown & replaced by one that understands that they serve the People, & that they don't rule over the People they serve.

The US Constitution, as designed by the American Founding Fathers, is not an instrument for the Government to restrain the American People, it is an instrument for the American People to restrain the US Government, an instrument which can be changed only by the will of the People.

That American government won't dictate to the Catholic Church, or any other Church or Faith, how they or their followers must practice their Religion. IMHO there will probably be a 'meeting of the minds' somewhere down the line, so the People's Freedom of Religion, & their beliefs are not infringed upon, & there can be a peaceful coexistence that is favorable to both Church & State.

Now, that I've had my say about that, AFAIK this thread was based on laws passed here by the Parliament of Australia.....not US Law, but Australian Law..........

As I said earlier......I wonder who will win this in the long run?

Who, yes who will be the long term winners? The hardcore pedophiles, that prey upon the innocent, & will never see the inside of a Church, much less repent to a priest.......or will the Australian People win at the expense of many of those unfortunate children, who's defilers continue to offend because they never had the benefit of being listened to, & counseled by, a priest who might have gotten some of them to change their ways, or maybe even some to turn themselves in to offend no more?
 
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johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Maybe that might the rule of the day here in Australia, where the only Rights the ordinary people have are granted to them (temporarily) by a government that can remove them at whim.
the topic is changes to Australian law so 'here' is the only place relevant to this discussion ... you can go back to the USA and shoot yourself in the foot whenever you decide it's better there.
 

DreamRyderX

Active member
the topic is changes to Australian law so 'here' is the only place relevant to this discussion ... you can go back to the USA and shoot yourself in the foot whenever you decide it's better there.
Why, we already love both........As I've said, we enjoy both, & we can take full advantage of the best each has to offer......which is better, at this point, is immaterial....no?
 
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johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
In the U.S. the clergy are considered to be "mandatory reporters" in about half of the states. Should be all of them.

Honestly, I think any adult should be a mandatory reporter under the law, including spouses of the suspect.

@SethBullock

Further on this, in those states where clergy are considered mandatory reporters, how has it worked out? Have the clergy played ball or have they refused to report? Do you know of any priest charged with not reporting?

I'm more curious with those religions that offer the 'seal of confession' like Catholics ... not sure what other religions also offer it.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
@SethBullock

Further on this, in those states where clergy are considered mandatory reporters, how has it worked out? Have the clergy played ball or have they refused to report? Do you know of any priest charged with not reporting?

I'm more curious with those religions that offer the 'seal of confession' like Catholics ... not sure what other religions also offer it.
I really don’t know, John. I tried to google it several ways, but all I get are articles about priests as suspects, not reporters.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
reason I ask is that the bishops over here are telling priests whatever happens with the laws, they're orders are not to report anything that is said in the confessional booth, under orders from Rome.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
reason I ask is that the bishops over here are telling priests whatever happens with the laws, they're orders are not to report anything that is said in the confessional booth, under orders from Rome.
Yes, I believe that is true from some quick research I did. In researching U.S. laws I found that a few states specifically deny the confessional "seal" in cases of child abuse or neglect. It gets a little confusing, as every state has its own laws. Here's an excerpt from an article I found.

This privilege, however, is not absolute. While clergy-penitent privilege is frequently recognized within the reporting laws, it is typically interpreted narrowly in the context of child abuse or neglect. The circumstances under which it is allowed vary from State to State, and in some States it is denied altogether. For example, among the States that list clergy as mandated reporters, Guam, New Hampshire, and West Virginia deny the clergy-penitent privilege in cases of child abuse or neglect. Four of the States that enumerate "any person" as a mandated reporter (North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, and Texas) also deny clergy-penitent privilege in child abuse cases.In States where neither clergy members nor "any person" are enumerated as mandated reporters, it is less clear whether clergy are included as mandated reporters within other broad categories of professionals who work with children. For example, in Washington, clergy are not enumerated as mandated reporters, but the clergy-penitent privilege is affirmed within the reporting laws.

 

DreamRyderX

Active member
......Further on this, in those states where clergy are considered mandatory reporters, how has it worked out? Have the clergy played ball or have they refused to report? Do you know of any priest charged with not reporting?

I'm more curious with those religions that offer the 'seal of confession' like Catholics ... not sure what other religions also offer it.
@Johnsmith

John.....I, like Seth, have tried to do a search on the subject. I've come up with basically the same.....nothing of any recourse except that of some of those States that have something like a 'Mandatory Reporter Statute', I randomly checked & found the couple I read had exceptions that basically ruled out if the information came upon from 'confidential communications' or under the 'seal of confession',whereas under those types of conditions, the clergy were not required to report.....

IMHO, based on the above, I would think that the States who went that way, were wary of violating obvious First Amendment objections, both within their own legislatures, & courts action they may eventually be up against.

I will try, if I get a chance, to call a friend who works closely with the Catholic Church, to see if he's heard any 'rumblings/grumblings' regarding this State vs Church matter......
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, I believe that is true from some quick research I did. In researching U.S. laws I found that a few states specifically deny the confessional "seal" in cases of child abuse or neglect. It gets a little confusing, as every state has its own laws. Here's an excerpt from an article I found.

This privilege, however, is not absolute. While clergy-penitent privilege is frequently recognized within the reporting laws, it is typically interpreted narrowly in the context of child abuse or neglect. The circumstances under which it is allowed vary from State to State, and in some States it is denied altogether. For example, among the States that list clergy as mandated reporters, Guam, New Hampshire, and West Virginia deny the clergy-penitent privilege in cases of child abuse or neglect. Four of the States that enumerate "any person" as a mandated reporter (North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, and Texas) also deny clergy-penitent privilege in child abuse cases.In States where neither clergy members nor "any person" are enumerated as mandated reporters, it is less clear whether clergy are included as mandated reporters within other broad categories of professionals who work with children. For example, in Washington, clergy are not enumerated as mandated reporters, but the clergy-penitent privilege is affirmed within the reporting laws.


thanks ... It'll be interesting to see how it develops over here.
 
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