Goodbye Donald Trump

DreamRyderX

Active member
Trump will be impeached on Wednesday 13th January 2021.

According to my calculations, he'll still be President on that day.

So, the attempt to impeach is going quite well - thank you for asking.
Even though no action on that 'indictment' by the House will be taken up in the US Senate before the presidential replacements are inaugurated, as stated by the Majority Leader of the Senate, R-Mitch McConnell......who will still be the Majority leader until the moment after the newest Senator-elects have been officially sworn in & seated in the US Senate---subsequent to certification by the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia on or about January 22, 2021---probably a day or so after the now President becomes the ex-President, & resumes being an ordinary Citizen once again, not subject to removal from office......subject solely to Civil Law (in the Civil Courts), not Constitutional Law (in the US Senate Court of Impeachment) as if still President.

..
 
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greggerypeccary

Active member
Even though no action on that 'indictment' by the House will be taken up in the US Senate before the presidential replacements are inaugurated, as stated by the Majority Leader of the Senate, R-Mitch McConnell......who will still be the Majority leader until the moment after the newest Senator-elects have been officially sworn in & seated in the US Senate---subsequent to certification by the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia on or about January 22, 2021---probably a day or so after the now President becomes the ex-President, & resumes being an ordinary Citizen once again, not subject to removal from office......subject solely to Civil Law (in the Civil Courts), not Constitutional Law (in the US Senate Court of Impeachment) as if still President.

..
He will be impeached, just like I said he would.

Life is good :)
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
is he accountable to the demographics that don't vote for him now ???
Not if you win by a sheer popular vote. In that case, you may completely ignore them.

When you have to win a whole state, your positions must appeal to a broader swath of voters.
 

DreamRyderX

Active member
He will be impeached, just like I said he would.

Life is good :)
And the Impeachment, just like the last one, will.......along with 50 Cents.......will get you on a 50 Cent Pony Ride on the pony of your choice..........Good for you Gweggy, you'll get yer wish.............Life is good
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
After the president incited militant supporters to breach the US Capitol building, leading to five deaths, and persistently tried to undermine the integrity of an election he lost, 73% of Republican voters who participated in the latest Quinnipiac poll still said that Donald Trump was protecting rather than undermining democracy.

In a poll of 1,239 self-identified registered voters, 70% of the Republicans also said that lawmakers. who voted to block electors were protecting rather than undermining democracy. Seventy-three percent of Republican voters said voter fraud was widespread, and 71% approved of Trump.

Wow I don't know why Seth bothers with looking at the polls.......
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
Not if you win by a sheer popular vote. In that case, you may completely ignore them.

When you have to win a whole state, your positions must appeal to a broader swath of voters.
so it makes more difference the way they act on the campaign trail , not after.....

eg one of Trumps main issue's during his original campaign was keeping coal related jobs, yet during his term more coal jobs where lost than any other president.....(before the Trump Flu hit as well )

BTW that is one of Trumps failures I'm completely happy with......although all those coal workers that trusted Trumps promices, not so much........
 
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greggerypeccary

Active member
And the Impeachment, just like the last one, will.......along with 50 Cents.......will get you on a 50 Cent Pony Ride on the pony of your choice..........Good for you Gweggy, you'll get yer wish.............Life is good
He'll be impeached.

Moreover, he'll be the only President in history to be impeached twice.

What an utter failure of a human being his is.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
so it makes more difference the way they act on the campaign trail , not after.....

eg one of Trumps main issue's during his original campaign was keeping coal related jobs, yet during his term more coal jobs where lost than any other president.....(before the Trump Flu hit as well )

BTW that is one of Trumps failures I'm completely happy with......although all those coal workers that trusted Trumps promices, not so much........
Yeah, the coal jobs promise was something that was not within his control. Trump actually tried to keep his promises mostly, however.
 

Auggie

Active member
Yes, but I think a president who wins by sheer popular vote becomes more powerful and less accountable to all the people.

I believe many members of Congress actually want a more powerful presidency because it takes responsibility and accountability away from them.

I want to have a robust and consequential Congress, and keep the presidency more of a servant of the Congress.
So, if that's the case, then support reform to have the President elected by Congress and appointed for life.
 

Auggie

Active member
Probably the main reason the American Founding Fathers rejected even the thought of instituting a Democracy
They rejected democracy because they were land-owning elites who wanted to retain their power.

That's it.

I was based purely on selfish motives.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
They wrote the Constitution in the 18th century - most ideas they had are outdated and are no longer relevant.

There should be a right to vote - doesn't matter whether the Founding Fathers believed in it or not.
The one thing that I love about the Constitution, is that it is NOT a static document. It is a a dynamic and adaptable document. With 11 amendments ratified in the 18th Century, 4 in the 19th Century, 12 in the 20th Century, and none so far in the 21st Century, I think their insight was very relevant. Especially with only 16 changes to the Constitution, in over 217 years. That is an average of 1 change, in every 13 years. I'd say that the Constitution is spot on.

I never said that the founding fathers did not believe in the right of all citizens to vote. I only said that there are no constitutional guarantees protecting our right to vote. There are in fact indirect guarantees protecting our voting rights(14th, 24th, 26th Amendment Fed. Voting Rights Act, etc.). I was speaking only about voting for the President. And, the Electoral College as the compromise. This was not a very high priority for them. But, they still had the insight to know, that the privileged class could easily manipulate the voting by the masses. And, could produce the Monarchy that they were trying so desperately to prevent. And, they also didn't want the privileged class to select their own leader, and create their own political dynasties. So the electoral College was the only rational compromise.

So, it basically had nothing to do with popular suffrage and everything to do with slavery. The Southern States were afraid that northern abolitionists would take away their right to have negro slaves as property.

That's not a position filled with wisdom or virtue.
I think you are missing the point here. We are talking about the impossibility of a country to be governed. Many legislations would just be dismissed, because of deep ideological differences between the north and the south, such as slavery and the rights of women. There were many other issues as well. I think that our founders ideals were very wise indeed. The devil was only in the details.
 

Auggie

Active member
I think you are missing the point here. We are talking about the impossibility of a country to be governed. Many legislations would just be dismissed, because of deep ideological differences between the north and the south, such as slavery and the rights of women. There were many other issues as well. I think that our founders ideals were very wise indeed. The devil was only in the details.
So, America was founded on compromise? The three-fifths compromise where the Southern States got disproportionate voting power.

I think the Founders had some good ideas - after all, they were designing a political system from scratch, and there were going to be inevitable errors with it.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Trump would be the only President impeached for the offence of "incitement of insurrection". With the irrefutable evidence, this process would be a "no brainer". He would then become the only President ever to be impeached twice while still in office. He might even be the only President removed from office, while he is no longer in office. He might even be the first President to go to prison on numerous State fraud and bankruptcy indictments.

A fitting legacy, for a divisive Presidency of lies, incompetence, deaths, war crimes, hatred, endless wars, indifference to the poor, and the pollution of all that America stands for.

Since there is no legal time limitations, if the Senate votes to remove him from office(even after the 20th Jan.), it would be the perfect storm. And, would be exactly what this madman deserves. At least he was able to expose all the nutcases in America, that he actually does represent. He is truly the Prince of Thieves and Liars. He was the only proven conman, with absolutely no political, military, or any elected experience, to con his way to become the President of the US. The claim he made against Obama.
 
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Shellandshilo1956

Active member
It should never happen again. In my OP I said that good could arise out of this.

I also told a guy on PF a few days ago that it is crucial that Americans have faith in the electoral process - that every vote is legitimate, and every legitimate vote is counted. The knee-jerk reaction by Democrats to that suggestion is that election fraud can't be proved, so they're not interested in looking at the system and improving it. To the other side, this sounds more like "winning at any cost", including cheating.

So, if we really want to avoid this sort of thing in the future, we need to make the system as foolproof and legitimate as humanly possible. Democrats need to get on board with this. If that happens, that will be the good.

Also, the progressive liberals and the liberal media who are decrying what the Trump supporters did today need to do the exact same thing about riots and antifa. They have coddled them and excused them and covered for them for months - years, actually. If they refuse to be consistent, their outrage over what happened at the Capitol today rings hollow and hypocritical. You cannot have it both ways and have any credibility.

And if the Democrats are unwilling to lock down the integrity of the electoral process, they will foster the sort of thing we saw today, and we could see it again.

As for the Capitol shooting ... The Capitol is a historic place. But it is, in essence, a work space, not a home. The woman who was shot was engaging in civil disobedience, and she was trespassing. Typically, trespassing and breaking a window (if she did) are simple misdemeanors. But when it comes to taking a life, the only standard to go by is whether or not she - and specifically, that particular woman - was posing an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or someone else at the moment she was shot. That imminent threat must be articulable and specific. Until the details come out, all we know is that she had a flag and a flagpole in her possession, and she appears to have been separated from the law enforcement officers by a closed door.

There is absolutely zero chance that I would have shot her had I been one of those officers on the other side of the door. Zero. I've been through enough shit in my life that I don't panic easily. In dangerous situations, I've learned to have confidence, consider my options, obey the law, and to swallow any fear that I might have. I wish I had been there, in charge of those guys.

I actually feel sick inside at the thought of her death.

View attachment 617
The only thing that progressives, liberals, or anyone else who believes in the true meaning of the words in our Preamble, our Bill of Rights, or in the words written on the Statue of Liberty, IS TO SUPPORT THE GOALS AND THE COURAGE OF ANTIFA.

Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, Black Liberation Army, SNCC, and other Black Nationalist groups, are just some of the groups that arose from the apathy, indifferences, complacency, and systemic injustices, tacitly sanctioned by White America. Or, do you think that all these groups just woke up one morning, and only THOUGHT that Whites were oppressing them? Remember, it was only when the SOUTH decided to nationalize photos and videos of their proud lynching's of Blacks over the media, that the rest of the country finally woke up. This was the beginning of the real Black Civil Rights Movement. That is, "dying on your feet, rather than living on your knees".

These groups had every justification to feel segregated and oppressed. Yet these groups were demonized, attacked, arrested, murdered, imprisoned, misrepresented and maligned as social pariahs. Yet, the expansion of White Nationalism, and racist rhetoric, has been allowed to spread with very little direct push-back. Whether out of ignorance, fear, tacit agreement, conformity, or bandwagon rationalizing by many Whites, a social double standard clearly exists. And, this passive double standard needed to be addressed for balance. Antifa, IS the balance. They choose NOT to sit and do nothing about letting this poison spread. Some of their members are truly going to die for their beliefs. But all social changes have been written in blood.

I have nothing but praise and admiration for Antifa. A group with the courage to use more than than just words, to fight against racism, bigotry, and social injustice. Since no one chooses their parents, birthplace, or gender, then bigotry, misogamy, and racism are just the irrational reality of our human condition. It is cooperation that is paramount for human survival. NOT DIVISION.

https://theconversation.com/is-racism-and-bigotry-in-our-dna-135096

So, good on Antifa for their initiative and their courage. And, for their standing up to these mental midgets and cowards. These social misfits are poisoning everything that America stands for. I only wish I could be there with them.

Regarding the killing of a member of an illegal mob. I seriously doubt if any cop would shoot a single woman engaging in civil disobedience, or for simply trespassing. However, she was part of a larger mob, and posing a real danger to the cop's life(by numbers alone). I certainly agree that it was not the wisest of decisions to shoot any member of a large angry mob. But when you are scared shitless, and armed to the teeth, and confronted by 50-100 angry mad people, coming at you screaming obscenities and smashing everything in their way, WELL SHIT JUST HAPPENS SOMETIMES!!

And I personally HAVE been in situations like that. Normally, firing your weapon into a mob would get you killed, as well as your mates. Fortunately, the mob cared more about their lives, than their agenda.

And if the Democrats are unwilling to lock down the integrity of the electoral process, they will foster the sort of thing we saw today, and we could see it again.
The electoral process is the same process that we have used for decades. If there is a specific problem, then point it out. This is NOT just a party issue. The electoral rules are covered in the Fed. and State's Voting Acts. They are overseen and regulated by the Fed. Election Commission(and its Assistance Commission). There is no doubt that there are problems, but we must first identify them. Not just bitch and blame others, only when an election is contested.

https://www.newamerica.org/political-reform/reports/america-needs-federal-elections-agency/

Tulsi, had the most practical solution. Simply use paper ballots as a back-up. If the election is ever contested, you could just count all physical paper ballots manually. This would remove all doubts. Of course this does not change the electoral College process. Winner would still take all, regardless of what party he belongs to. After what the Democrats did to Tulsi, they don't have any integrity at all to me. But even they can't lockdown voting integrity. Arguing from ignorance, is never a good legal strategy. What was the consensus of the thousands of voting monitors?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Does this inspire confidence in the system?
Simply showing the proof that something is possible, is NOT evidence that something has occurred. Right? But I agree that those 2 questioned should have sent off red flags, and an immediate visit from a monitor. Perhaps you can let your representatives know as well.

There is no absolute fool-proof system for voting. It is always easier to criticize the movie, than it is to make the movie. Put your suggestions for your election solutions on paper, and send them to the State or Federal election commissions. Remember, we are talking about hundreds of millions of votes. Votes coming from overseas, from the military, and through the post. Plus or minus 6 or 7 million votes winning margin, I think is good enough.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
The only thing that progressives, liberals, or anyone else who believes in the true meaning of the words in our Preamble, our Bill of Rights, or in the words written on the Statue of Liberty, IS TO SUPPORT THE GOALS AND THE COURAGE OF ANTIFA.

Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, Black Liberation Army, SNCC, and other Black Nationalist groups, are just some of the groups that arose from the apathy, indifferences, complacency, and systemic injustices, tacitly sanctioned by White America. Or, do you think that all these groups just woke up one morning, and only THOUGHT that Whites were oppressing them? Remember, it was only when the SOUTH decided to nationalize photos and videos of their proud lynching's of Blacks over the media, that the rest of the country finally woke up. This was the beginning of the real Black Civil Rights Movement. That is, "dying on your feet, rather than living on your knees".

These groups had every justification to feel segregated and oppressed. Yet these groups were demonized, attacked, arrested, murdered, imprisoned, misrepresented and maligned as social pariahs. Yet, the expansion of White Nationalism, and racist rhetoric, has been allowed to spread with very little direct push-back. Whether out of ignorance, fear, tacit agreement, conformity, or bandwagon rationalizing by many Whites, a social double standard clearly exists. And, this passive double standard needed to be addressed for balance. Antifa, IS the balance. They choose NOT to sit and do nothing about letting this poison spread. Some of their members are truly going to die for their beliefs. But all social changes have been written in blood.

I have nothing but praise and admiration for Antifa. A group with the courage to use more than than just words, to fight against racism, bigotry, and social injustice. Since no one chooses their parents, birthplace, or gender, then bigotry, misogamy, and racism are just the irrational reality of our human condition. It is cooperation that is paramount for human survival. NOT DIVISION.

https://theconversation.com/is-racism-and-bigotry-in-our-dna-135096

So, good on Antifa for their initiative and their courage. And, for their standing up to these mental midgets and cowards. These social misfits are poisoning everything that America stands for. I only wish I could be there with them.

Regarding the killing of a member of an illegal mob. I seriously doubt if any cop would shoot a single woman engaging in civil disobedience, or for simply trespassing. However, she was part of a larger mob, and posing a real danger to the cop's life(by numbers alone). I certainly agree that it was not the wisest of decisions to shoot any member of a large angry mob. But when you are scared shitless, and armed to the teeth, and confronted by 50-100 angry mad people, coming at you screaming obscenities and smashing everything in their way, WELL SHIT JUST HAPPENS SOMETIMES!!

And I personally HAVE been in situations like that. Normally, firing your weapon into a mob would get you killed, as well as your mates. Fortunately, the mob cared more about their lives, than their agenda.



The electoral process is the same process that we have used for decades. If there is a specific problem, then point it out. This is NOT just a party issue. The electoral rules are covered in the Fed. and State's Voting Acts. They are overseen and regulated by the Fed. Election Commission(and its Assistance Commission). There is no doubt that there are problems, but we must first identify them. Not just bitch and blame others, only when an election is contested.

https://www.newamerica.org/political-reform/reports/america-needs-federal-elections-agency/

Tulsi, had the most practical solution. Simply use paper ballots as a back-up. If the election is ever contested, you could just count all physical paper ballots manually. This would remove all doubts. Of course this does not change the electoral College process. Winner would still take all, regardless of what party he belongs to. After what the Democrats did to Tulsi, they don't have any integrity at all to me. But even they can't lockdown voting integrity. Arguing from ignorance, is never a good legal strategy. What was the consensus of the thousands of voting monitors?
I appreciate your articulate reply.

I respectfully disagree about Antifa. I think, in light of the Capitol violence, that now would be a good time to condemn all politically motivated violence. I hear what you said about the black civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s, but I think we’re at a point in the 21st century where it is no longer necessary to resort to violence in order to be heard. I am not going to agree to a belief that THIS political violence is okay, but THAT political violence is not okay.

Surely you don’t agree to setting fire to occupied buildings where people either live or work in the name of social justice, do you? In Portland, Antifa has done that multiple times. They have injured scores of police officers. Surely we cannot condemn the murder of the Capitol police officer while we justify the injury or murder of other police officers, in both cases whose job it is to preserve order.

I think the woman who was shot and killed in the Capitol building put herself in harms way, and she was breaking the law and she was foolish. But I know for a fact that I wouldn’t have shot her, and I have made those kinds of decisions in the past, and I won’t hesitate if it’s needed. As an example from the same incident, I would shoot a suspect trying to bash a fellow officer over the head with a fire extinguisher, or anyone else for that matter.

Long ago - pre-Covid - I predicted that Trump would lose the 2020 election. I believe that he did, in fact, legitimately lose the election. But I do think that the election procedures should be impartially and objectively examined and improvements made where warranted. I see no harm in doing that.

Seth
 
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