Covid-19 Revisit

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
face masks
I was talking about human biological systems John. Not the media system of disseminating bullshit to ignorant sheep. The bullshit, that somehow if you just wrap some paper, or a rag around your face, that you will somehow be protected from the coronavirus. But you must first ignore all the facts why you won't be. Baa!

Again, my problem is NOT with what placebo people choose to feel secure. My problem is choice itself. This disease is NOT 100% lethal to humans. This disease is NOT the gravest threat to human existence by any stretch of the imagination.

This manufactured media crisis, can't justify forced isolations, business and industry shutdowns, forced distancing, forced mask-wearing, and the imposition of fines and imprisonments. In reality, if you don't have any underlying chronic, or immunological health issues, YOU WILL RECOVER!!! As with any flu or cold. Also, even if we did absolutely nothing, it would take the virus centuries to infect everyone in Australia( assuming no one ever recovered).

We will certainly recover from this flu-like virus(as thousands have already). But we will never recover from the damage this government has done to our economy, and to the Australian people. Why can't people understand, that we are not all going to die from this virus? That 97%+ people will recover without any treatment, and will develop immunity to the virus naturally? Why can't people understand, that around 99% of Australians are not infected at all(as testings have clearly shown)? And, that even those who are seriously ill, CAN BE TREATED!! Why can't people understand, that as more and more people recover, less and less people can be infected by this virus?

I just can't see any justification for shutting down a country, or in suspending the civil liberties of its people. Certainly, not because of this. A war, a lethal plague, or a natural disaster, YES! But not this hyped-up bullshit fear-mongering, that is being spoon-feed to ignorant gullible sheep!

In Australia, any person who dies, and is infected with COVID-19, is declare a COVID-19 related death. This means that the 5 total deaths out of the 23K under 50 yo infected, will be declared Covid-19 related deaths. Even though their deaths were related to their longstanding other underlying chronic illnesses. Australia makes no distinction between dying WITH Covid-19, and dying FROM Covid-19. The hype is all that matters. Not the truth!
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Not the media system of disseminating bullshit to ignorant sheep.
don't be stupid all of your life. Even you said that masks offer some protection

There are many reasons why masks will only offer some protection against any viral pathogen

since no one has ever claimed it offers total protection, everything else in your rant is just that, a rant.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Hand washing, social distancing as well as masks when needed.

So, because people don't wash their hands properly, or religiously keep 2 meters apart, or wear useless masks, we should destroy our economy, suspend all civil liberties, isolate our country, arrest and fine our citizens, and end our businesses and industries, to force them to comply? That is called Fascism.

Do you think that even if this was a practical solution, and if people DID do all of these things, would this end all infections? Should we use this strategy with any infections in the future? And, bugger the consequences?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
, we should destroy our economy,
and on this ... i think the head of the reserve bank said it perfectly at the start of the covid pandemic when he said something along the lines of 'the economy is there to serve the public, not the other way around'

The economy is a man made tool designed to help man. No better time for that help than during a pandemic
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
don't be stupid all of your life. Even you said that masks offer some protection




since no one has ever claimed it offers total protection, everything else in your rant is just that, a rant.
Prove just how stupid I am dumb-dumb! that is, without exposing just how stupid(and uninformed) you clearly appear to be. And, based on most of your brain-dead comments, I seriously doubt that you can. Presenting facts is clearly not your forté.

At least you are still good at misrepresenting, and cherry-picking my comments out of context. By your logic, water can offer some protection for those jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. Since not everyone dies after jumping off. If you have a problem with the rational and factual arguments that I present(other than denying that they exist at all), then let's hear yours. Nevermind, not the old, "It is, because I say it is." arguments. Right?

Also, since I ALSO claim that masks DO offer some protection, this means that I am NOT one of those mystery people, who are claiming that masks offers total protection. Therefore, this is just another one of your famous strawman argument, to force-fit your own narrative. You are not even logically consistent with your insults. Being just a rant is one thing, but being just a rant because you falsely categorize me with your strawman, is just being intellectually dishonest, contradictory, and inconsistent. But I have come to expect nothing less from you.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
and on this ... i think the head of the reserve bank said it perfectly at the start of the covid pandemic when he said something along the lines of 'the economy is there to serve the public, not the other way around'

The economy is a man made tool designed to help man. No better time for that help than during a pandemic

What exactly does all that mean John? Does this mean that I can go to the reserve bank and ask them to give me money during this pandemic? Or, during any economic or medical crisis? Is this a good time to ask for help for my family?

Are platitudes meant to be real? Or, just more rhetoric to placate the fears of ignorant sheep?

Just more good-sounding deepities that are virtually meaningless.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
I certainly know a lot about women. And, it has nothing to do with being smug. Since you haven't explained HOW I am misguided, WHAT I am incorrect about, or WHY my assumptions are wrong, I can't comment further.

..............

My point was that masks offer very little protection, and why. Any other reason you wear them is irrelevant to me.
I do not pursue my points further because this IS NOT the place for you to discourse at length on what you think you know about women. Further, I have no expectation that anything any one's posts would ever change your mind opinion, so I see no point in further discussions about this , ON THIS TOPIC.


Perhaps you'd like to cut and paste your comments to a new topic, by you.

The Truth About Women.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
it means we don't accept people dying unnecessarily just because we're worried about the economy
Now who's being stupid and naive? What exactly is a necessary death? Do you really think that the Government concerns itself with either? It is simply a matter of its agenda.

The use of tobacco is directly linked to around 20,000 preventable and unnecessary deaths each year. As well as over 46 preventable and unnecessary medical conditions that require treatments. Yet the $17.1B in tobacco revenue, seems to outweigh the $137B in the social and healthcare costs produced by its products.

The government charges $2.23 per liter(4th highest in the world), on all alcohol in Australia. It pocket $3.6B in alcohol taxes alone per year. It believes, that by increasing taxes on harmful products to the public, that it will force people to behave responsibly. Oh, and make a profit in the process. Where is its concerns about unnecessary liver, obesity, and heart disease related deaths?

The Billions of dollars made from the sugar industry revenue, also seems to outweigh the costs of treating the diseases caused by its products. Such as all unnecessary and preventable deaths from diabetes and obesity.

So spare my me your fake righteous indignations, and your hollow platitudes. The government's primary agenda has nothing to do with the public's health, or its well-being. And, never has.

So, you just keep telling yourself, that you will gladly sacrifice the 700,000 Australian jobs(already lost), if it will save just one person from dying from complications of covid-19? Fuck the long-term consequences of your actions. This is far too simple and obdurate for me. I would gladly sacrifice my life to protect the freedoms of the many. I would even sacrifice the freedoms of the many to protect the lives of the many. But, I will NOT sacrifice the freedoms of the many, to protect the lives of a few. After 14 months, there are only 74 active cases in Queensland, and still only 6 deaths. So, again tell me, why are we locking down the State? This is just madness.

Nevermind. Why let the truth get in the way of the truth. Just conflate everything I say as just a rant. You're good at that.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I do not pursue my points further because this IS NOT the place for you to discourse at length on what you think you know about women. Further, I have no expectation that anything any one's posts would ever change your mind opinion, so I see no point in further discussions about this , ON THIS TOPIC.
Perhaps you'd like to cut and paste your comments to a new topic, by you.

The Truth About Women.
Look, YOU are the one who used gender as part of your argument. Not me. I have always focused my comments on Covid-19, and its related topics. My knowledge of women is based only on facts, and not on opinions. If you want to start a thread/topic about "The Truth About Women", I will be happy to contribute my thoughts. And, will gladly tell you everything about yourself(as a woman), based on science alone. Did you know that the "platysma" muscle in women is much more pronounced, than it is in men. It is also called the, "talking muscle".

Although your comment were a bit insensitive, My mind can easily be changed. Just not by opinions alone. Simply saying that you disagree with me won't change my mind. Especially, if you are not going to bother to explain why.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
I'd like to think that this is more about commonsense than about sensibility. But, in what way am I being less sensible? Should I simply agree that forcing 26M people to keep 2 meters apart is a rational and practical solution? Should I simply agree that uninfected people wearing masks, will be protected from becoming infected? Or, should I simply agree that we should sacrifice everything(including our privacy, personal freedoms, means of support, business industries, etc.), just to combat a disease that effects 0.1% of the population, and is 3-4% fatal? Do you know how many diseases and illnesses are much worse(Cancer, Hypertension, Alcoholism, Obesity, Diabetes, etc.), and the government does nothing about it? Should I simple be vaccinated because it is fashionable, even though I am not in any of the at-risk groups? So, can you be a bit more specific?

My very real worry is the abuse of power by the government. We are talking about having direct control over people's lives, under the threat of thousand dollar fines or imprisonment. We are talking about lawful acts, that are no longer lawful. We are talking about the suspension of our individual freedom(without any push-back), based on the tiny odds of catching a flu-like virus, with an over 97%+ survival rate.

My concerns are NOT about any hypotheticals. My concern is that the government is no longer pretending, that it is concerned with the health of the public. It is now concerned with power and control. Do you know how many centuries it would take, for 10 people to infect 26M people in Australia? That's assuming no one developed any immunity. If 10 people are enough to cause a lockdown for over 5M people, than why not just ONE person?

This immature government simply wants to be relevant on the world stage, as a leader in the fight against an over-hyped, over-sensationalized flu-like virus. It will sacrifice anything to achieve global recognition through the use of power and control. It is no longer asking for the cooperation of the 97%+ uninfected Australians. It is demanding cooperation under threat. Just like in any other fascist societies. This is a health issue, NOT A CRIMINAL ISSUE!
Well, you're being exceedingly dramatic for a start. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nobody ever said masks would protect you, rather they would protect people from you, nobody has sacrificed everything, nobody is less free in any significant sense and the reason we have such a low rate of infection is because of all of the precautions we have taken. Other countries have been less wise and dramatically harder hit. Just look at Sweden vs the rest of Scandinavia.

So calm your farm, we're adjusting. The worst is behind us and a whole lot fewer people died than they would have had we not been so prudent. And it's a great dry run for the big one. Look at countries who suffered from SARS back when. They went through this with flying colours entirely because they'd done it all before.

As for your governement conspiracy stuff ...it's always wise to be wary of data collection but i think you're being well paranoid. Like, Alex Jones territory. Get back to me when you find out who turned the fricken frogs gay.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Your gender concerns are not without merits. There are many biological and social differences between men and women. There is an evolutionary, biological, physical, and a social need/desire, for the majority of women to procreate. This need is more powerful in women than in men(women are bi-lateral thinkers, men aren't). For many women, it defines them, validates their existence, and gives them purpose. This means that women must adapt to any accepted cultural standards, mores, and customs, in order to attract men. If wearing bunny ears, covering their body in tattoos, wearing a veil, going under the knife, or drinking and smoking will attract men, then women will do it. The mothering instinct is hardwired by evolution, and is reinforced through social and family pressures. These pressures in women, are more powerful than our basic need to conform, or our need for acceptance. However, the wearing of face-masks is gender neutral, and has no direct relevance to a woman's vanity, or to any generational era. IMHO.

Jesus. The 1950s are that-a-way man.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Well, you're being exceedingly dramatic for a start. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nobody ever said masks would protect you, rather they would protect people from you, nobody has sacrificed everything, nobody is less free in any significant sense and the reason we have such a low rate of infection is because of all of the precautions we have taken. Other countries have been less wise and dramatically harder hit. Just look at Sweden vs the rest of Scandinavia.
My writing reflects who I am. And, I can't change that. Nor want to.

Clearly, my reality is different than yours. And, I seem to have been completely misinformed.

Business owners CHOOSE to close down their businesses and layoff their staff, because they could have ignore lockdown restrictions.
People simply CHOOSE to wear masks when lockdown restrictions are in place, and not wear them when they are lifted.
People simply CHOOSE to keep 2 meters apart from each other. Not because of lockdown restrictions.
People simply CHOOSE to vaccinate themselves, or to download locator apps./contact tracers.
People simply CHOOSE NOT to go to the movies, gather in groups, attend funerals and churches, go overseas on vacation, lie on beaches or walk in parks, or even dine in restaurants. Not because of lockdown restrictions.
People CHOOSE to comply with restrictions voluntarily. Not because of thousand dollar fines or the threat of imprisonment.
People simply CHOOSE to give up their civil liberties and freedoms, voluntarily. They are NOT forced. Clearly my mistake.


Maybe your version of reality is correct. That no one is forcing anyone to do anything; That no one has sacrificed anything(jobs businesses, freedoms, etc.); That we can even choose to ignore lockdown restrictions; That we are still free, as long as we obey all lockdown restrictions(sorry, that's a contradiction). But my eyes can't unsee the results/effects that these restrictions are having in real time. And, can't ignore the facts. But i certainly can ignore the lies, omissions and half-truths. One could even argue that the lockdowns CAUSED more people to concentrate in the communities, shopping centers, and in supermarkets. Thus causing more people to become infected.

Many time LESS people were infected, or died, in the 3 months prior to the lockdown. Many times MORE people were infected, or died, after the lockdown. As more and more people are infected, more and more people became immune. As more and more people became immune, less and less people could be infected. This is not rocket science. This is what the stats are telling us. This is how man has survived pathogen outbreaks long before lockdowns were even thought of. If the government wants to take responsibility for a natural cycle in nature, I couldn't care less. But just don't suspend my freedom of choice to do so.

What is the direct link between Covid-19 in Sweden and Covid-19 in Australia? None!! All you know is what you are told. Without lockdowns, more infected. And, with lockdowns, less infected. And this is the total extent of your causality connection. Nevermind about any other factors(demographics, climate and weather, concentration, temperature, etc.). Viruses don't mutate because we just keep our distances from each other. They mutate to better fight our immune system. This is the logical fallacy of "hasty generalization".

If you can be infected through the eyes, breathe air in from the sides, collect viruses by removing masks and touching other surfaces, that viruses are 3 times smaller than the smallest mask pore size, that even healthcare professionals with the best PPE's are still being infected, then the only conclusion to draw is that masks provide very little protection. Add to this, that you have a 99% chance of not being infected, and a 97%+ chance of recovering even if you are. So, why would you wear a mask at all? I personal think, that carrying a rabbit's foot would work just as well.

Do any of these facts even matter to you?

That there are only 82/5.2M active cases of Covid-19 in Queensland(153/26M cases in Australia) https://www.health.gov.au/news/heal...s-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers
That if your immune system is not compromised, or you don't already suffer from a chronic illness, YOU WILL RECOVER IF INFECTED.
That even if we did nothing(as we have in the past), it would take decades to infect every Australian(assuming none recovered).
That even if we did nothing, that it would take the virus centuries to kill every Australian(assuming no one recovered).
That viruses don't kill. It is our immune response that kills.
That viruses are not alive. That only our immune system fights viruses. Not masks, distancing, antibiotics, isolations, or any physical barrier. As long as you breathe air, you can be infected.

Maybe you think that all 82 infected people are out of hospital or their homes, and in the shopping center with you. Oh, now that would be real paranoia.

So calm your farm, we're adjusting. The worst is behind us and a whole lot fewer people died than they would have had we not been so prudent. And it's a great dry run for the big one. Look at countries who suffered from SARS back when. They went through this with flying colours entirely because they'd done it all before.
You have absolutely no idea if people have died with the virus, or have died from the virus. All deaths that test positive for Covid-19, are also classified as a Covid-19 related death. You also have no idea if our being prudent was the direct cause of fewer deaths, or even if the worst is behind us. You are just making a self-serving assumption based on cherry picking the results to fit your narrative. Can you think of other factors/variables that would give the same results? I certainly can. The virus simply runs its course. That is, as more and more people become immune, less and less people can be infected. Nothing to do with lockdown restrictions. And, everything to do with the history and life cycle of viruses.

As for your governement conspiracy stuff ...it's always wise to be wary of data collection but i think you're being well paranoid. Like, Alex Jones territory. Get back to me when you find out who turned the fricken frogs gay.
If there's something that I have mentioned that the government has NOT actually done, then please let's hear it. If I have misrepresented or misinterpreted any data, then please I'm all ears. If I am just being paranoid about anything that I have said, then please point out why that paranoia is unfounded. So, get back to me when you can parrot more than just government/media sound-bites and platitudes, or anything more than "Well, it just ain't so.".

Jesus. The 1950s are that-a-way man.
Sorry, far too cryptic for me to understand.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
you're confused. i said to 'prevent unnecessary deaths'.
I'm confused? Everytime I talk to you I hyperventilate from your deflections and excuses. I ask you to prove your claim that I am stupid. Nothing. I asked you what is a "necessary death", since you claim the government would sacrifice the entire economy to prevent even one unnecessary death. More side-stepping. Since you claim that the economy is there to serve the public, especially during times of crisis, I asked if I could borrow money to help my family. Nothing.

Are all alcohol, tobacco, sugar, obesity, and diabetes related deaths "necessary deaths". Because clearly the government doesn't sacrifice the economy over these deaths. And these deaths are the single-most preventable deaths to prevent.

I won't bother asking you to quote where you said "prevent unnecessary deaths". I'm sure it exists somewhere in your mind. But the question was, "What exactly is a necessary death?". So what deaths are necessary, that we will not sacrificed the economy, and what deaths are unnecessary that we will sacrifice the economy?

I know that I am stupid and confused. But am I being clear enough for you?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
I'm confused? Everytime I talk to you I hyperventilate from your deflections and excuses
deflections? like you asking about 'what is a necessary death'?

if you're hyperventilating it's probably because deep down you've realized the stupidity of your argument but don't want to admit it to yourself
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Look, YOU are the one who used gender as part of your argument. Not me. I have always focused my comments on Covid-19, and its related topics. My knowledge of women is based only on facts, and not on opinions. If you want to start a thread/topic about "The Truth About Women", I will be happy to contribute my thoughts. And, will gladly tell you everything about yourself(as a woman), based on science alone. Did you know that the "platysma" muscle in women is much more pronounced, than it is in men. It is also called the, "talking muscle".

Although your comment were a bit insensitive, My mind can easily be changed. Just not by opinions alone. Simply saying that you disagree with me won't change my mind. Especially, if you are not going to bother to explain why.
I have no need to explain as it is obvious that your views are out of touch... to put it politely. YOU can't see that and won't accept any replies without further argument.!

The sorts of comments you have made express the very ideas that enable sexual assaults and domestic violence against women. Not enlightened are you. ? Shock Gasp.... ! sadly you are beyond the pail, and I refuse to waste my energy. beyond the odd comment. YOU must spend most of your life on the net. Unless of course it's a bit of cut and paste from earlier dissertations, nevertheless there is nothing edifying in what you say about women.

I was offering a reason or two as to why mask-wearing need not be so onerous.
After all, its all in your head.!
I should have said masks allow me to go shopping WITHOUT MY FALSE TEETH. Lovely.

Personally your lack of sensitivity is obvious, and your declarations of fact are Not.
Your personal narcissism is on display. You are just so much smarter more knowledgeable and always correct, aren't you.?.

I doubt you ever wonder at yourself, and your vociferousness, but EVERYONE else does.!

ENOUGH SAID.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
deflections? like you asking about 'what is a necessary death'?

if you're hyperventilating it's probably because deep down you've realized the stupidity of your argument but don't want to admit it to yourself
Is there any hope in this entire deflection, that you will answer any of my questions? Since you have avoided answering what is a "necessary death" like the plague, lets try this instead.

Would you consider the deaths from smoking and drinking too much, also "unnecessary deaths"? Are the deaths caused by obesity and diabetes, also "ünnecessary deaths" as well? So, why doesn't the government NOT sacrifice the economy to save lives, caused by two of the most preventable diseases on the planet?

I can only assume that these victims are just NOT dying unnecessarily.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Why? Because that is where the government get's most of it's revenue from. ie. consumption. Like Petrol... polluting , hoons... accidents..? It's all about the money. Too bad they didn't apply that to less harmful drugs.
 
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Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I was offering a reason or two as to why mask-wearing need not be so onerous.
Again for the last time. I don't give a shit if someone wants to cover themselves from head to toe in masks(or why). I don't give a shit if wearing masks is onerous or easy. My gripe is that our freedom of choice has been taken away. We can no longer choose NOT to wear a mask. Clearly, this is not an issue with you. But it is with me. So stop implying that I don't like wearing masks because it is some kind of physical or emotional burden for me.

I am not smarter or dumber than anyone on this forum. I have access to the same information as anyone else here. And, I share that information in my posts. You can always scrutinize these facts, and present your own argument. I have certainly made mistakes on many occasions, and they were pointed out to me.

The rest is your opinion. So, if you want to have a go at my character, Go for it. I am far too old in the tooth to give a shit anymore.

QUOTE="pinkeye, post: 180050, member: 259"]
Why? Because that is where the government get's most of it's revenue from.
[/QUOTE]

I Agree. This was my point.
 
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